Did Jesus preach or proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity?

[Christian3]

Many thanks.

The problem does not end here. In Revelation 3:21, Jesus said " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne";therefore, "God" Jesus sitting with God the Father requires more than one God while 1 Corinthians 8:4 says "there is no other God but one"

When reading Scriptures keep in mind that Christians only believe in one God -- one Being in three persons -- Father, God's Word (son by relationship) and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the Qur'an does your Allah refute the Trinity -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one Being in three persons.

The author of the Qur'an thought the trinity was Allah, Jesus and the virgin Mary.

The author of the Qur'an had never heard of the incarnation because the author of the Qur'an said that Jesus could not be God because He had to eat food. Christians have always believed Jesus was fully human so of course He had to eat food.

As for Revelation 3:21:

I found the following in Michael Brown's "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" Volume Two.

"Consider these verses from the last book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 3:21, Jesus declares that he sat down with the Father on his throne, but what does that mean? According to Revelation 4:2, John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, is caught up in the Spirit and sees "a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it."

"It was "the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come" (Revelation 4:8). Next, John sees "a Lamb [representing Jesus], looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne" (Revelation 5:6). And as the heavenly drama unfolds, John records: "Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" (Revelation 5:13).

"Did you notice those words? "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb." Now pay careful attention. In Revelation 7:9, John sees a multitude" standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb," and they cry out, "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne and to the Lamb" (Revelation 7:10).

"The general picture is clear, but the specifics are not as easy to decipher: God sits on his throne, and with him is the Lamb, yet this Lamb is "at the center of the throne" (Revelation 5:6; Revelation 7:17). What exactly does this mean? There is some mystery involved, without doubt.

"Then we come to the end of the book, and in a real sense, the end of the story. Revelation 22:1 speaks of "the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb." "Mark those words carefully, the throne of God and of the Lamb. And now look at these astounding verses: "The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city [i.e., the New Jerusalem], and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads" (Revelation 22:3-4)

"What an incredible description! There is one throne for God and the Lamb (not two thrones), and his servants (not their servants) will serve him (not them) and see his face (not their faces). One throne, one God, and one face. This is profound, glorious monotheistic truth at its best. Our God is complex and unique! And so the angel exhorts John in Revelation 22:9, "Worship God!' not "Worship gods." Perish the thought. The one God of Abraham and Moses is the one God of Peter and Paul."

[Christian3]

My advice to you is to quote the Bible when I quote the Bible to show that trinity is not Biblical.

The concept of the Trinity is Biblical:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm...ty/trinity.cfm

https://www.monergism.com/topics/trinity

https://www.monergism.com/topics/tri...idence-trinity

[Christian3]

The only thing you demonstrate when you quote the Bible is that your English reading comprehension skills are lacking.

He's trying to save the Qur'an, but it can't be done.

[Dan Zebiri]

Absolutely right, your observation describes hakeem's shallow and twisted mind and thoughts to a tee, LOL!

He is totally incapable and intentionally unwilling to use his brain to grasp the facts already put to him.

It's just casting pearls before swine here, like the Lord Jesus Christ already warned!

Dan.

The only thing you demonstrate when you quote the Bible is that your English reading comprehension skills are lacking.

[Same Hakeem]

When reading Scriptures keep in mind that Christians only believe in one God -- one Being in three persons -- Father, God's Word (son by relationship) and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the Qur'an does your Allah refute the Trinity -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one Being in three persons.

The author of the Qur'an thought the trinity was Allah, Jesus and the virgin Mary.

The author of the Qur'an had never heard of the incarnation because the author of the Qur'an said that Jesus could not be God because He had to eat food. Christians have always believed Jesus was fully human so of course He had to eat food.

As for Revelation 3:21:

I found the following in Michael Brown's "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" Volume Two.

"Consider these verses from the last book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 3:21, Jesus declares that he sat down with the Father on his throne, but what does that mean? According to Revelation 4:2, John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, is caught up in the Spirit and sees "a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it."

"It was "the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come" (Revelation 4:8). Next, John sees "a Lamb [representing Jesus], looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne" (Revelation 5:6). And as the heavenly drama unfolds, John records: "Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" (Revelation 5:13).

"Did you notice those words? "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb." Now pay careful attention. In Revelation 7:9, John sees a multitude" standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb," and they cry out, "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne and to the Lamb" (Revelation 7:10).

"The general picture is clear, but the specifics are not as easy to decipher: God sits on his throne, and with him is the Lamb, yet this Lamb is "at the center of the throne" (Revelation 5:6; Revelation 7:17). What exactly does this mean? There is some mystery involved, without doubt.

"Then we come to the end of the book, and in a real sense, the end of the story. Revelation 22:1 speaks of "the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb." "Mark those words carefully, the throne of God and of the Lamb. And now look at these astounding verses: "The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city [i.e., the New Jerusalem], and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads" (Revelation 22:3-4)

"What an incredible description! There is one throne for God and the Lamb (not two thrones), and his servants (not their servants) will serve him (not them) and see his face (not their faces). One throne, one God, and one face. This is profound, glorious monotheistic truth at its best. Our God is complex and unique! And so the angel exhorts John in Revelation 22:9, "Worship God!' not "Worship gods." Perish the thought. The one God of Abraham and Moses is the one God of Peter and Paul."

Many thanks Christian3 but still did not answer my objection.

When Jesus said in Revelation 3:21 that he (Jesus) "sat down with my Father on his throne" means Jesus and Father were sitting on the throne. Therefore, the following question begs an answer;

"how can Jesus be God and be siting with his God the Father on the throne and still have one God?"

[Christian3]

Many thanks Christian3 but still did not answer my objection.

When Jesus said in Revelation 3:21 that he (Jesus) "sat down with my Father on his throne" means Jesus and Father were sitting on the throne. Therefore, the following question begs an answer;

"how can Jesus be God and be siting with his God the Father on the throne and still have one God?"

Do you think God has a literal throne/chair and God literally sits on it?

[Same Hakeem]

Do you think God has a literal throne/chair and God literally sits on it?

[Same Hakeem]

There is an unsolved problem of the Trinity; if Jesus died on the cross, was Jesus-the man or Jesus-the-God that died on the cross? If Jesus-the-man died, then Jesus-the-man could not save others, since "every man is to die for HIS OWN sin" according to God in 2 Kings 14:6. If, on the other hand, Jesus-the-God died, then we have an impossibility since God can't die.

[Christian3]

So, you think God has a rear end like humans do???

Do you think God has eyes, hands, etc. like humans do???

[Same Hakeem]

So, you think God has a rear end like humans do???

Do you think God has eyes, hands, etc. like humans do???

If the Bible says so.

[Christian3]

If the Bible says so.

[Same Hakeem]

You saying that "Jesus Christ came to earth as God in human form (John 1:1)" begs a question; how can Jesus the-word- be God and be with God since there is only one God.

[Christian3]

You saying that "Jesus Christ came to earth as God in human form (John 1:1)" begs a question; how can Jesus the-word- be God and be with God since there is only one God.

It has to do with relationship.

[Same Hakeem]

You have not answered my above objection which is summed up as follows;

How can Jesus the-word be God in John 1:1 and be with God?

[Christian3]

You have not answered my above objection which is summed up as follows;

How can Jesus the-word be God in John 1:1 and be with God?

with Him to complete the assignment.

Moving on:

and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 All things were created through Him,
and apart from Him not one thing was created
that has been created.

Since God's Word takes commands from God, the Word is God. God's Word shares the nature and being of God, or was an extension of the personality of God.

The Word of God is eternal. The Word has always existed. When all things began, the Word already existed.

As the NET Bible says: The preposition πρός (pros) implies not just proximity, but intimate personal relationship."

And then:

"The Word became flesh
and took up residence among us.
We observed His glory,
the glory as the One and Only Son[m] from the Father,
full of grace and truth.

This is called the incarnation. God's Word became a human being called Jesus, making Jesus one person with two natures; one human and the other divine.