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Did Jesus preach or proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity?

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  • As I said - the scriptures show clearly that God is triune, and show how that fact has its outworking.

    Your objection fails to take into account the Jesus of Nazareth was God-become-man. Philippians 2:6 and John 1 give basic accounts of that fact, but they are not the only references.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      As I said - the scriptures show clearly that God is triune, and show how that fact has its outworking.

      Your objection fails to take into account the Jesus of Nazareth was God-become-man. Philippians 2:6 and John 1 give basic accounts of that fact, but they are not the only references.
      Phil 2 and John 1 have Jesus called "GOD" or "in the form of God", which are common in the Bible where figures are called GODS as in Psalm 82:6.

      What makes one God is if such one meets the qualities of God given in the Bible. God has certain qualities in the Bible. For example, God is one; "there is no God but one" in 1 Corinthians 8:4. Colossians 3:1 says "Christ sits at the right hand of God." So if "God" Jesus sits at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1, there must be more than one God; otherwise, Jesus is not God.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
        Phil 2 and John 1 have Jesus called "GOD" or "in the form of God", which are common in the Bible where figures are called GODS as in Psalm 82:6.
        The phrase "in the form of God" in Philippians 2:6 is in no way analogous to the term "gods" in Psalm 82:6. Being in the form of God implies equality with God, as the verse goes on to explain, while the same cannot be same for the "gods" in Psalm 82:6.

        Furthermore, in Romans 10 Paul ascribes the divine name YHWH to Jesus, and sets forth as a condition for salvation to confess Jesus as Lord, where is a substitute for the tetragrammaton:

        Scripture Verse: Romans 10:9-13


        9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

        © Copyright Original Source



        "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" is a citation from Joel 2:32, where Lord is a substitute for the tetragrammaton. In other words, and as I've already mentioned above, Paul is claiming that Jesus is none other than YHWH in human form.


        Scripture Verse: Romans 10:9-13


        What makes one God is if such one meets the qualities of God given in the Bible. God has certain qualities in the Bible. For example, God is one; "there is no God but one" in 1 Corinthians 8:4. Colossians 3:1 says "Christ sits at the right hand of God." So if "God" Jesus sits at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1, there must be more than one God; otherwise, Jesus is not God.

        © Copyright Original Source



        The term God is used in different senses in 1 Cor 8:4 and Col 3:1. In the former it's speaking of God as a being, while in the latter it's speaking about the person of God the Father, i.e it's used as a title. Christianity teaches that there are three distinct Persons who are all perfectly united in one divine being/essence. So there is one being, God, but three Persons sharing fully in the divine essence, who are all properly called God.

        Comment


        • Hakeem, your so-called "answers" are really what make no sense. Here you selectively quote from.the Gospel of John and then hypocritically and shamefully ignore the other passages from the same Gospel. You were never able to reply my earlier answer to your thoughtless ramblings like so. ..:-

          Comment


          • Dan Zebiri said:
            06-02-2019 08:06 PM

            You so conveniently forget, or is superbly ignorant about, hakeem, that Jesus Christ is the Logos and the Word of God in Christianity and this is also agreed by the quran.

            In the Divine Holy Trinity, the Divine Word of God co-exists eternally with God Himself. To be at the "side of God" or internal to God is never an issue whatsoever for us.

            Because God's Word and God Himself, can never be separated. That's clearly why the Lord Jesus Christ Himself declared that He "and the Father (ie.God) ARE ONE." in John 10:30, also in John 14:9-10:

            Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip?

            He who has seen me has seen the Father.

            How do you say, 'Show us the Father?' Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.

            So, when He ascended back to be with God the Father, Jesus Christ can be seated at God's "right hand" or He can continue to live in the Father because Jesus is God's living Word, they are inseparable. No problem for us whatsoever.

            Comment


            • Jesus Christ Himself declared that He "and the Father (ie.God) ARE ONE." in John 10:30, also in John 14:9-10:

              Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip?

              He who has seen me has seen the Father.

              How do you say, 'Show us the Father?' Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.

              Comment


              • It's interesting that this thread is about Jesus Christ "teaching or proclaiming about the Holy Trinity", so passages of Scripture should appropriately and rightly focus on Christ's words in the Gospel.

                Taking verses from outside the 4 Gospels are at best, only secondary and supplementary to argue the case.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  The phrase "in the form of God" in Philippians 2:6 is in no way analogous to the term "gods" in Psalm 82:6. Being in the form of God implies equality with God, as the verse goes on to explain, while the same cannot be same for the "gods" in Psalm 82:6.

                  Furthermore, in Romans 10 Paul ascribes the divine name YHWH to Jesus, and sets forth as a condition for salvation to confess Jesus as Lord, where is a substitute for the tetragrammaton:

                  Scripture Verse: Romans 10:9-13


                  9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" is a citation from Joel 2:32, where Lord is a substitute for the tetragrammaton. In other words, and as I've already mentioned above, Paul is claiming that Jesus is none other than YHWH in human form.


                  Scripture Verse: Romans 10:9-13


                  What makes one God is if such one meets the qualities of God given in the Bible. God has certain qualities in the Bible. For example, God is one; "there is no God but one" in 1 Corinthians 8:4. Colossians 3:1 says "Christ sits at the right hand of God." So if "God" Jesus sits at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1, there must be more than one God; otherwise, Jesus is not God.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  The term God is used in different senses in 1 Cor 8:4 and Col 3:1. In the former it's speaking of God as a being, while in the latter it's speaking about the person of God the Father, i.e it's used as a title. Christianity teaches that there are three distinct Persons who are all perfectly united in one divine being/essence. So there is one being, God, but three Persons sharing fully in the divine essence, who are all properly called God.

                  Saying "The term God is used in different senses in 1 Cor 8:4 and Col 3:1. In the former it's speaking of God as a being, while in the latter it's speaking about the person of God the Father, i.e it's used as a title" does not solve the problem because if God is only one as per 1 Corinthians 8:4, "God" Jesus siting at the right hand of God the Father requires two Gods.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                    Saying "The term God is used in different senses in 1 Cor 8:4 and Col 3:1. In the former it's speaking of God as a being, while in the latter it's speaking about the person of God the Father, i.e it's used as a title" does not solve the problem because if God is only one as per 1 Corinthians 8:4, "God" Jesus siting at the right hand of God the Father requires two Gods.


                    First, there is only one God and Christians believe in only one God, the God of Israel.

                    The phrase "sitting at the right of hand of God" means a place of honor and authority.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                      [/U][/B]

                      First, there is only one God and Christians believe in only one God, the God of Israel.

                      The phrase "sitting at the right of hand of God" means a place of honor and authority.
                      In Revelation 3:21, Jesus said " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne" ;therefore, "God" Jesus siting with God the Father requires more than one God while 1 Corinthians 8:4 says "there is no other God but one"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                        [/U][/B]

                        First, there is only one God and Christians believe in only one God, the God of Israel.

                        The phrase "sitting at the right of hand of God" means a place of honor and authority.
                        To be specific, it is an echo of Psalm 110.1:

                        “The LORD said to my Lord:
                        Sit thou at My right hand,
                        Until I make thine enemies thy footstool”.

                        The passage is a speech of God to the king He has chosen. And for the New Testament authors, Jesus, the son of David, is that King. And that passage is fulfilled when Jesus ascends to His Father, and is “seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high”. He is frequently referred to as “Lord” - either because He is identified with the God of Israel, or because He is God’s Chosen King, or because He is both.

                        https://www.biblehub.com/psalms/110-1.htm - many parallel passages are quoted

                        https://www.blueletterbible.org/sear...=s_primary_0_1

                        This passage from the very beginning of the Letter to the Hebrews is striking:

                        1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

                        3 He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:

                        “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”a ?

                        Or again:

                        “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”b ?

                        6And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:

                        “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”c

                        7Now about the angels He says:

                        “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.”d

                        8But about the Son He says:

                        “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.”e

                        10And:

                        “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,and the heavens are the work of Your hands.11They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.12You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmentf they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”g

                        13Yet to which of the angels did God ever say:

                        “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet”h ?

                        14Are not the angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation ?

                        https://www.biblehub.com/bsb/hebrews/1.htm

                        The words of Psalm 110 are quoted to show that Jesus, God’s Chosen King, above the angels, and is, in fact, God. They all show that He is our High Priest, Who has “provided purification for sins” (see also Hebrews chapters 7-10).


                        Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 07-30-2019, 11:32 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                          To be specific, it is an echo of Psalm 110.1:

                          “The LORD said to my Lord:
                          Sit thou at My right hand,
                          Until I make thine enemies thy footstool”.

                          The passage is a speech of God to the king He has chosen. And for the New Testament authors, Jesus, the son of David, is that King. And that passage is fulfilled when Jesus ascends to His Father, and is “seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high”. He is frequently referred to as “Lord” - either because He is identified with the God of Israel, or because He is God’s Chosen King, or because He is both.

                          https://www.biblehub.com/psalms/110-1.htm - many parallel passages are quoted

                          https://www.blueletterbible.org/sear...=s_primary_0_1

                          This passage from the very beginning of the Letter to the Hebrews is striking:

                          1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

                          3 He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:

                          “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”a ?

                          Or again:

                          “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”b ?

                          6And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:

                          “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”c

                          7Now about the angels He says:

                          “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.”d

                          8But about the Son He says:

                          “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.”e

                          10And:

                          “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,and the heavens are the work of Your hands.11They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.12You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmentf they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”g

                          13Yet to which of the angels did God ever say:

                          “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet”h ?

                          14Are not the angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation ?

                          https://www.biblehub.com/bsb/hebrews/1.htm

                          The words of Psalm 110 are quoted to show that Jesus, God’s Chosen King, above the angels, and is, in fact, God. They all show that He is our High Priest, Who has “provided purification for sins” (see also Hebrews chapters 7-10).




                          Many thanks.

                          The problem does not end here. In Revelation 3:21, Jesus said " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne";therefore, "God" Jesus sitting with God the Father requires more than one God while 1 Corinthians 8:4 says "there is no other God but one"

                          Comment


                          • Not only does this guy have an over-thick skull, he also displays total disregard to proper principles of basic Biblical and scripture exegesis.

                            The 'multiplicity of Gods' exists only in his puny, closed and made-up mind! 'Hakeem' would probably jump up & down in rage when it can be shown from the Koran that islamic monotheism or 'tawheed' is nothing but a pretentious sham, totally inconsistent with what orthodox islam and sunnis were trying so hard to peddle from the era of the korans burning centuries ago.


                            Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                            Many thanks.

                            The problem does not end here. In Revelation 3:21, Jesus said " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne";therefore, "God" Jesus sitting with God the Father requires more than one God while 1 Corinthians 8:4 says "there is no other God but one"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                              Not only does this guy have an over-thick skull, he also displays total disregard to proper principles of basic Biblical and scripture exegesis.

                              The 'multiplicity of Gods' exists only in his puny, closed and made-up mind! 'Hakeem' would probably jump up & down in rage when it can be shown from the Koran that islamic monotheism or 'tawheed' is nothing but a pretentious sham, totally inconsistent with what orthodox islam and sunnis were trying so hard to peddle from the era of the korans burning centuries ago.
                              My advice to you is to quote the Bible when I quote the Bible to show that trinity is not Biblical.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                My advice to you is to quote the Bible when I quote the Bible to show that trinity is not Biblical.
                                The only thing you demonstrate when you quote the Bible is that your English reading comprehension skills are lacking.

                                Comment

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