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Thread: Did Jesus preach or proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity?

  1. #41
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Jesus Christ said in John 10:29 that "My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all" and hence the Father is greater all including the Holy Spirit because all means all.
    But John 10:29 was originally written in Koine Greek, not English, so the limitations of the English word "all" isn't really relevant here.

    But even if we go only by the English translation it doesn't pose any problems, because not even in English must the word "all" necessarily imply "everyone/everything without exception", even when there are no qualifiers to the word.

    And even if it did mean "everyone without exception" in this particular verse it still wouldn't pose any problems because it would fit quite naturally with the doctrine of the procession of the Holy Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Colossians 3:1 mentions that "Christ is seated at the right of God" and disapproves Trinity because how can God sit with God if Jesus Christ was God?!
    When the Bible says Christ is seated at the right hand of God the main point is not that Jesus is literally sitting on the right side of God, but that Jesus is sharing in God's majesty, glory and dominion.

    And you're misunderstanding what Christians mean when we say Christ is God, or the Father is God, or the Spirit is God. "God" here doesn't mean "God, the person", but "divine". So we're not saying that the Father, the Son (Christ) and the Spirit are all the same person, called God, but that they all share fully in the one single, undivided, divine essence.

    In Colossians 3:1 however, "God" is used to signify a person, in this case the person of the Father. Using the word "God" to signify the Father is something the NT writers frequently do in their writings, and doesn't pose any problem what so ever to the doctrine of the Trinity, so long as the doctrine is properly understood.

  2. #42
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Please be focused and explain how God can be one and Jesus be God and sits with God.
    That would be a total waste of my time, as you're not here to learn -- you're only here to do battle.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That would be a total waste of my time, as you're not here to learn -- you're only here to do battle.
    I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.
    Sure thing. And the fact that a human is body, soul, and spirit means there isn't one person but three.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.
    If you really wanted to learn about the doctrine of the Trinity you would pick up a book of dogmatics, or a catechism of any denomination that teaches an orthodox concept of the Trinity, and study it in order to come to a proper understanding of the doctrine. You wouldn't be here wasting everyone's time by arguing against a twisted and heretical doctrine of the Trinity that no orthodox denomination has ever held, nor will ever hold.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    But John 10:29 was originally written in Koine Greek, not English, so the limitations of the English word "all" isn't really relevant here.

    But even if we go only by the English translation it doesn't pose any problems, because not even in English must the word "all" necessarily imply "everyone/everything without exception", even when there are no qualifiers to the word.

    And even if it did mean "everyone without exception" in this particular verse it still wouldn't pose any problems because it would fit quite naturally with the doctrine of the procession of the Holy Spirit.



    When the Bible says Christ is seated at the right hand of God the main point is not that Jesus is literally sitting on the right side of God, but that Jesus is sharing in God's majesty, glory and dominion.

    And you're misunderstanding what Christians mean when we say Christ is God, or the Father is God, or the Spirit is God. "God" here doesn't mean "God, the person", but "divine". So we're not saying that the Father, the Son (Christ) and the Spirit are all the same person, called God, but that they all share fully in the one single, undivided, divine essence.

    In Colossians 3:1 however, "God" is used to signify a person, in this case the person of the Father. Using the word "God" to signify the Father is something the NT writers frequently do in their writings, and doesn't pose any problem what so ever to the doctrine of the Trinity, so long as the doctrine is properly understood.
    Please let me correct you;

    1. In English, all means all and everyone without exception. Please refer to the below English dictionary
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/all

    2. If the Father is greater than all then I do not see how " it would fit quite naturally with the doctrine of the procession of the Holy Spirit"

    3. I want to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) can be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1

  7. #47
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.
    Sure you are.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  8. #48
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Please let me correct you;

    1. In English, all means all and everyone without exception. Please refer to the below English dictionary
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/all
    One teensie weensie widdle problem with that, SH --- the Bible wasn't written in English.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  9. #49
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    One teensie weensie widdle problem with that, SH --- the Bible wasn't written in English.
    Please refer to the below link of John 10:29 in Greek to read that all means all.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/10-29.htm

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    The Cambridge Dictionary doesn't deal with colloquial usages in the definition, but it does give more than one in the example sentences supplied -
    Only a few explicitly state the position though, as
    When cooking the sauce, don't forget that all-important (= most or very important) ingredient
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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