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Did Jesus preach or proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity?

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  • I read your answers but still did not answer my question how there can be ONLY ONE God if Jesus God the word was with God according to John 1:1

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    • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      I read your answers but still did not answer my question how there can be ONLY ONE God if Jesus God the word was with God according to John 1:1
      I did answer your question.

      Doesn't your Allah create via his word? Yes. Doesn't that mean that your Allah's word was with your Allah? Yes. Does that mean that your Allah had another God create because his word was with him? No.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
        I did answer your question.

        Doesn't your Allah create via his word? Yes. Doesn't that mean that your Allah's word was with your Allah? Yes. Does that mean that your Allah had another God create because his word was with him? No.
        The problem does not end here. Because Jesus said in Revelation 3:21 "I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne" and therefore, there is only one God and Jesus cannot be God and be sitting with God the Father on his throne. Otherwise, if Jesus were "GOD" sitting with GOD the Father on his throne in Rev 3:21, there is more more than one God.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          The problem does not end here. Because Jesus said in Revelation 3:21 "I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne" and therefore, there is only one God and Jesus cannot be God and be sitting with God the Father on his throne. Otherwise, if Jesus were "GOD" sitting with GOD the Father on his throne in Rev 3:21, there is more more than one God.
          See my post #136.

          Keep in mind that Christians only believe in One God.

          I have already explained the incarnation to you.

          As a Muslim you should be concerned that your Allah had never heard of the incarnation and if I were you I would be concerned that nowhere in the Bible is your prophet Muhammad foretold. In addition, if I were a Muslim I would be concerned that the Qur'an says that Jesus did not die and was not crucified when it is plain that Jesus said He would die and did.
          Last edited by Christian3; 11-08-2019, 03:12 PM.

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          • Hi Christian3,

            Saying Jesus was fully God and fully man at same time imposes problems so when Jesus the God also died on the cross, then we have impossibility because God cannot die.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              Hi Christian3,

              Saying Jesus was fully God and fully man at same time imposes problems so when Jesus the God also died on the cross, then we have impossibility because God cannot die.
              Who is God according to Christianity? Answer: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

              Who died on the cross Hakeem?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                Who is God according to Christianity? Answer: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

                The answer, according to Christianity, is the trinity which is the belief that God is one manifested in three Persons; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit; each Person is fully God.



                Who died on the cross Hakeem?
                According to Christianity Jesus died, then was Jesus-the man or Jesus-the-God that died on the cross? If Jesus-the-man died, then Jesus-the-man could not save others, since "every man is to die for HIS OWN sin" according to God in 2 Kings 14:6. If, on the other hand, Jesus-the-God died, then we have an impossibility since God can't die.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                  According to Christianity Jesus died, then was Jesus-the man or Jesus-the-God that died on the cross? If Jesus-the-man died, then Jesus-the-man could not save others, since "every man is to die for HIS OWN sin" according to God in 2 Kings 14:6. If, on the other hand, Jesus-the-God died, then we have an impossibility since God can't die.
                  God does not die.

                  The human body of Jesus Christ died on the cross and the Son (second person of the Trinity) was separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit for three days.

                  It is important to realize that the Trinity still existed, but one of them was separated from the others. This is the great sacrifice of God. For the first time ever, the love of God suffered loss.

                  Judaism teaches that the death of the righteous atones.

                  Numbers 20:

                  The entire congregation of the children of Israel arrived at the desert of Zin in the first month, and the people settled in Kadesh. Miriam died there and was buried there.

                  Rashi's note: Miriam died there: Why is the passage relating Miriam’s death juxtaposed with the passage of the Red Cow? To teach you that just as sacrifices bring atonement, so the death of the righteous secure atonement.

                  Jesus was righteous, without sin; even Islam teaches that Satan touches everyone except Jesus and Mary.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    God does not die.

                    The human body of Jesus Christ died on the cross and the Son (second person of the Trinity) was separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit for three days.

                    It is important to realize that the Trinity still existed, but one of them was separated from the others. This is the great sacrifice of God. For the first time ever, the love of God suffered loss.

                    Judaism teaches that the death of the righteous atones.

                    Numbers 20:

                    The entire congregation of the children of Israel arrived at the desert of Zin in the first month, and the people settled in Kadesh. Miriam died there and was buried there.

                    Rashi's note: Miriam died there: Why is the passage relating Miriam’s death juxtaposed with the passage of the Red Cow? To teach you that just as sacrifices bring atonement, so the death of the righteous secure atonement.

                    Jesus was righteous, without sin; even Islam teaches that Satan touches everyone except Jesus and Mary.
                    You saying "The human body of Jesus Christ died on the cross and the Son (second person of the Trinity) was separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit for three days" is not correct because mainstream Christianity teaches that Jesus was fully God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME; in other words, God incarnate. Also, if it was Jesus the man that died, then Jesus could not save others because according to the Bible in 2 Kings 14:6 "every man is to die FOR HIS OWN sin"

                    Comment


                    • Even Jesus refuted that the Holy Spirit (the third person in Trinity) is God in Matthew 24:36. Jesus said “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father." According to Jesus in Matthew 24:36, ONLY the Father that knows that hour and hence excluding the Holy Spirit and proving that the Holy Spirit is not God.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                        You saying "The human body of Jesus Christ died on the cross and the Son (second person of the Trinity) was separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit for three days" is not correct because mainstream Christianity teaches that Jesus was fully God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME; in other words, God incarnate. Also, if it was Jesus the man that died, then Jesus could not save others because according to the Bible in 2 Kings 14:6 "every man is to die FOR HIS OWN sin"
                        I've answered your questions. I've discussed Islam and Christianity with dozens and dozens of Muslims and I can tell when one is sincere in their questions and you are not. Either that or you have comprehension problems and I can't help you with that.

                        I was naïve enough to think you might be sincere and since I am the only one replying to your posts, it seems other Christians were on to you before I was.

                        Bottom line: God saved us from our sins at the cross; that is why Jesus said:

                        Mark 10:45: For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

                        Jesus said in John 17: This is eternal life:
                        that they may know You, the only true God,
                        and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.

                        You don't know the one true God or Jesus Christ.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          Even Jesus refuted that the Holy Spirit (the third person in Trinity) is God in Matthew 24:36. Jesus said “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father." According to Jesus in Matthew 24:36, ONLY the Father that knows that hour and hence excluding the Holy Spirit and proving that the Holy Spirit is not God.
                          There is an ordering or a chain of command within the Trinity. All comes from the Father. It is the Father who sends the son; the son never sends the Father. God sends His Holy Spirit and tells Him what to do and speak. That is why Peter said if you have lied to the Holy Spirit you have lied to God.

                          The Father is highest in authority. That is why Jesus said the Father is greater than I -- greater in authority, but not in essence.

                          You do not understand the Trinity and have no attempt to learn. I can recommend some books:

                          The Trinity: Evidence And Issues by Robert Morey
                          The Forgotten Trinity by Dr. James R. White
                          Testimonies Of The Ante-Nicene Fathers To The Doctrine Of The Trinity by Edward Burton
                          The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology, and Worship by Robert Letham
                          God in Three Persons by E. Calvin Beisner
                          Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Relationships, Roles, and Relevance by Bruce A. Ware
                          Trinity & Triunity: Salvation and the Nature of the Godhead by E. Charles Heinze
                          The Trinitarian Controversy by William G. Rusch
                          The Trinity by Edward H. Bickersteth
                          The Trinity In The New Testament by Arthur W. Wainwright
                          Making Sense of The Trinity by Millard J. Erickson

                          It's too bad you have not been sincere in your posts.

                          Good luck.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                            I've answered your questions. I've discussed Islam and Christianity with dozens and dozens of Muslims and I can tell when one is sincere in their questions and you are not. Either that or you have comprehension problems and I can't help you with that.

                            I was naïve enough to think you might be sincere and since I am the only one replying to your posts, it seems other Christians were on to you before I was.

                            Bottom line: God saved us from our sins at the cross; that is why Jesus said:

                            Mark 10:45: For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

                            Jesus said in John 17: This is eternal life:
                            that they may know You, the only true God,
                            and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.

                            You don't know the one true God or Jesus Christ.
                            You saying "You don't know the one true God or Jesus Christ" is not true because the only true God is the Father who sent Jesus Christ according to John 17:1-3;

                            After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

                            1“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
                            Last edited by Same Hakeem; 11-12-2019, 03:48 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                              There is an ordering or a chain of command within the Trinity. All comes from the Father. It is the Father who sends the son; the son never sends the Father. God sends His Holy Spirit and tells Him what to do and speak. That is why Peter said if you have lied to the Holy Spirit you have lied to God.

                              The Father is highest in authority. That is why Jesus said the Father is greater than I -- greater in authority, but not in essence.

                              You do not understand the Trinity and have no attempt to learn. I can recommend some books:

                              The Trinity: Evidence And Issues by Robert Morey
                              The Forgotten Trinity by Dr. James R. White
                              Testimonies Of The Ante-Nicene Fathers To The Doctrine Of The Trinity by Edward Burton
                              The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology, and Worship by Robert Letham
                              God in Three Persons by E. Calvin Beisner
                              Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Relationships, Roles, and Relevance by Bruce A. Ware
                              Trinity & Triunity: Salvation and the Nature of the Godhead by E. Charles Heinze
                              The Trinitarian Controversy by William G. Rusch
                              The Trinity by Edward H. Bickersteth
                              The Trinity In The New Testament by Arthur W. Wainwright
                              Making Sense of The Trinity by Millard J. Erickson

                              It's too bad you have not been sincere in your posts.

                              Good luck.
                              You saying "You do not understand the Trinity and have no attempt to learn it" is not true because I stated to you the definition of Trinity and I will re-say it as follows;

                              Trinity is the belief that God is one manifested in thee Persons; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit and each Person is fully God.

                              My objection to the Trinity is specific to the third Person that is the Holy Spirit when Jesus Christ said specifically "ONLY THE FATHER" knows that day and that hour in Matthew 24:36 hence excluding the Holy Spirit to know that hour in Matthew 24:36; therefore, the Holy Spirit cannot be God as explained earlier because God knows everything.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                                I've answered your questions. I've discussed Islam and Christianity with dozens and dozens of Muslims and I can tell when one is sincere in their questions and you are not. Either that or you have comprehension problems and I can't help you with that.

                                I was naïve enough to think you might be sincere and since I am the only one replying to your posts, it seems other Christians were on to you before I was.

                                Bottom line: God saved us from our sins at the cross; that is why Jesus said:

                                Mark 10:45: For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

                                Jesus said in John 17: This is eternal life:
                                that they may know You, the only true God,
                                and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.

                                You don't know the one true God or Jesus Christ.
                                Christian3 don't waste your time. Hakeem just brings the same refuted arguments over and over, then leaves for a while hoping people forget what happened last time.

                                Comment

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