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Did Jesus preach or proclaim the doctrine of the Trinity?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    This is in submission to the Father, as others have said, this does not mean the Holy Spirit cannot speak on his own.


    And this also is submission to the Father, where does it say that each person of the Godhead at all times must know everything?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Thanks for your question. The Bible says God cannot lie. Where does it say God cannot lie all times?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      Saying "That still does not say that he can't speak on His own authority, only that He doesn't speak on his own authority" is not true because ,for example, God does not lie and hence God cannot lie.
      wat

      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      Saying " Jesus here is not literally claiming that the Father is the only one Who knows the hour of the Sons return, but is using imagery from ancient Jewish wedding customs" is not true because if Jesus wanted to say the Holy Spirit knows the hour, Jesus would not have said "but the Father ONLY" in Matthew 24:36.
      So basically, "the text can't be saying X because I've already made up my mind that it says Y, regardless of what reasons there could be for holding that the text says X".

      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      The Trinity is questioned in light of the fact that Jesus said in Revelation 3:21 "I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne" and hence Jesus cannot be God because had Jesus been God, he would not have sat with God the Father; God (Christ if so) cannot be sitting with God the Father.
      So, Jesus cannot be God in light of the fact that he claimed equality with God the Father?

      Comment


      • #33
        The answer to "So, Jesus cannot be God in light of the fact that he claimed equality with God the Father?" is that Jesus cannot be God sitting with the Father as in Revelation 3:21 because there is one God.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          So basically, "the text can't be saying X because I've already made up my mind that it says Y, regardless of what reasons there could be for holding that the text says X".
          That is pretty much what the video (post #28) is doing.

          So, Jesus cannot be God in light of the fact that he claimed equality with God the Father?
          Interesting point ... to date I haven't seen any claim in scripture to say that Jesus is equal with the Father ... with God yes.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
            Thanks for your question. The Bible says God cannot lie. Where does it say God cannot lie all times?
            "In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath,
            so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us." (Heb 6:17–18)


            "Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
            in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago..." (Titus 1:1–2)

            If it is impossible for God to lie, if God cannot lie, then he cannot lie at any time.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              That is pretty much what the video (post #28) is doing.
              How do you figure? I can't recall anything that he said in the video that would imply that the uploader has already made up his mind in regards to what interpretation is incorrect.


              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              Interesting point ... to date I haven't seen any claim in scripture to say that Jesus is equal with the Father ... with God yes.
              When God is mentioned as a separate person from Jesus it usually, if not always, refers to the Father.

              Comment


              • #37
                Jesus Christ said in John 10:29 that "My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all" and hence the Father is greater all including the Holy Spirit because all means all.
                Last edited by Same Hakeem; 05-15-2019, 01:14 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Colossians 3:1 mentions that "Christ is seated at the right of God" and disapproves Trinity because how can God sit with God since God is one.
                  Last edited by Same Hakeem; 05-15-2019, 01:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                    Colossians 3:1 mentions that "Christ is seated at the right of God" and disapproves Trinity because how can God sit with God if Jesus Christ was God?!
                    You are demonstrating a woeful ignorance of the concept of the Trinity.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      You are demonstrating a woeful ignorance of the concept of the Trinity.

                      Please be focused and explain how God can be one and Jesus be God and sits with God.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                        Jesus Christ said in John 10:29 that "My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all" and hence the Father is greater all including the Holy Spirit because all means all.
                        But John 10:29 was originally written in Koine Greek, not English, so the limitations of the English word "all" isn't really relevant here.

                        But even if we go only by the English translation it doesn't pose any problems, because not even in English must the word "all" necessarily imply "everyone/everything without exception", even when there are no qualifiers to the word.

                        And even if it did mean "everyone without exception" in this particular verse it still wouldn't pose any problems because it would fit quite naturally with the doctrine of the procession of the Holy Spirit.

                        Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                        Colossians 3:1 mentions that "Christ is seated at the right of God" and disapproves Trinity because how can God sit with God if Jesus Christ was God?!
                        When the Bible says Christ is seated at the right hand of God the main point is not that Jesus is literally sitting on the right side of God, but that Jesus is sharing in God's majesty, glory and dominion.

                        And you're misunderstanding what Christians mean when we say Christ is God, or the Father is God, or the Spirit is God. "God" here doesn't mean "God, the person", but "divine". So we're not saying that the Father, the Son (Christ) and the Spirit are all the same person, called God, but that they all share fully in the one single, undivided, divine essence.

                        In Colossians 3:1 however, "God" is used to signify a person, in this case the person of the Father. Using the word "God" to signify the Father is something the NT writers frequently do in their writings, and doesn't pose any problem what so ever to the doctrine of the Trinity, so long as the doctrine is properly understood.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          Please be focused and explain how God can be one and Jesus be God and sits with God.
                          That would be a total waste of my time, as you're not here to learn -- you're only here to do battle.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That would be a total waste of my time, as you're not here to learn -- you're only here to do battle.
                            I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                              I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.
                              Sure thing. And the fact that a human is body, soul, and spirit means there isn't one person but three.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                I am here to learn how God is ONE and God (Jesus) be with God when Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in Colossians 3:1. That's two to me.
                                If you really wanted to learn about the doctrine of the Trinity you would pick up a book of dogmatics, or a catechism of any denomination that teaches an orthodox concept of the Trinity, and study it in order to come to a proper understanding of the doctrine. You wouldn't be here wasting everyone's time by arguing against a twisted and heretical doctrine of the Trinity that no orthodox denomination has ever held, nor will ever hold.

                                Comment

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