Shutdown Over Border Security?

[Tassman]

You think those who want to abolish ICE have some other plan in mind to fetter access? If so, I'd like to see it.

It is the job of U.S. Customs and Border Protection to “fetter access”, not ICE.

No one's arguing for a wall alone - or do you think Trump wants to replace ICE with the wall?

Trump has been arguing exclusively until very recently for his big beautiful wall paid for by Mexico; he has resisted any options to focus on more cost-effective border security, such as sections of fencing, advanced technology and increased manpower.

I see you sort of forgot to address how your own country handles such things.

“Australia is within the top three humanitarian resettlement countries in the world. Under the humanitarian program, the department granted 13,799 visas in 2010–11. Of these, 8971 were granted offshore and 4828 were granted onshore. The Woman at Risk target of 12 per cent of refugee grants (720 grants) was exceeded, with 759 visas granted.”

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/

But we’re talking about TRUMP’S WALL in this thread not OZ Immigration policy.

How does the law make it "virtually impossible"?

People’s personal experiences indicate this: “Is it still worth trying to come to America as an asylum seeker? I'm not sure. Don’t come here. If you are afraid for your life and you have no place to go, don’t pick this country. It is not safe for you here anymore. If you try to cross our borders, people in military uniform called border patrol agents, will arrest you, throw you in a freezing cage and subject you to all kinds of abuses. These agents who don’t speak your language will sit you down and interrogate you. It won’t matter if you didn’t understand their questions, they will write whatever they want in dozens of forms, make you sign them, and use them against you later as they try to deport you. Luis Mancheno

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-human-rights

And why is it that the United States always has to be the one who takes in those fleeing violence or persecution? If someone from [random South/Central American country] is fleeing violence or persecution, why can't they move to one of the other multitudes of closer countries which speak the same language?

The USA is traditionally a land of immigrants, people know this.

[Starlight]

The USA is traditionally a land of immigrants, people know this.

But it's gotta be the right kind of immigrants Tass. British are fine, Germans are okay, Norwegians are good, Irish and Italians can be okay in small numbers. But colored people?!? US tradition is to enslave them, exterminate them, or steal the majority of their land and confine them to Reservations.

[JimL]

This is why I was not even upset when the democrats took over the house again. The republicans are sissies and afraid to do their jobs. They haven't done squat the entire time they had the power to do so.

Sure they did, they passed a nice big tax cut for the rich and cut many regulations allowing corporations to pollute our environment and our food. Oh, they did spend some time trying to whittle away at the ACA as well. That should make you happy.

[Tassman]

But it's gotta be the right kind of immigrants Tass. British are fine, Germans are okay, Norwegians are good, Irish and Italians can be okay in small numbers. But colored people?!? US tradition is to enslave them, exterminate them, or steal the majority of their land and confine them to Reservations.

I know, I know. Brown and black are out. Sad!

[Bill the Cat]

I know, I know. Brown and black are out. Sad!

Racist prig.

[Bill the Cat]

About 800,000 government workers are not currently receiving paychecks because the government is shutdown. My heart goes out to them and their families over this Christmas & New Year period as Trump the Christmas Grinch has handed them a horrible Christmas period.

Nope. The Dems refuse to, and I quote Pelosi, "give one damned penny to the wall". The Grinch is solidly Blue in this shutdown.

What typically happens is that after the shutdown ends, Congress passes legislation to back-pay these employees for any missed paychecks during the shutdown period. So they do, eventually, get their money. But, as always, these sorts of things hit the poor the hardest and any families of these workers who were living paycheck to paycheck are going to be suffering.

It's a known risk of being a government worker. It's happened multiple times. I was even warned to stockpile some money in savings for the next eventual shutdown.

Refusing to back-pay these workers and instead redirecting their money elsewhere would be... controversial in the extreme.

They will get their back pay. Only once in the last 30 years have they not, and that was under Clinton.

[Bill the Cat]

False analogy! Nobody is arguing for unfettered access over the Mexican border.

Democrat inaction is tacit arguing for unfettered access.

But Trump's "big, beautiful wall" is not the way to go. What is required is a layered approach to border security, one that includes sections of fencing, advanced technology and increased manpower.

This is the Republican plan.

Apart from the prohibitive expense of the wall Trump touted during his campaign (with his dishonest assertion that Mexico would pay for it) walls alone tend not to work too well; they're readily defeated by ladders and tunnels.

Nowhere in the Republican, or Trump's plan for that matter, are technology and manpower excluded. The Democrats have no plan, except obstruct.

The "bad law" is making it virtually impossible for legitimate asylum seekers fleeing violence or persecution to lodge claims in the United States.

It's not virtually impossible. It's actually pretty easy once the process begins. It may take some time, but it isn't hard.

[Terraceth]

So this is now officially the longest government shutdown in US history.

[rogue06]

So this is now officially the longest government shutdown in US history.

[Bill the Cat]

So this is now officially the longest government shutdown in US history.

And they still are doing more than Congress

[Starlight]

So this is now officially the longest government shutdown in US history.

And Mitch McConnell could end it any time he wants, by having his senators override Trump's veto and reopen the government. But he seems to prefer to let the country suffer and to give Trump enough rope to hang himself.

[Terraceth]

And Mitch McConnell could end it any time he wants, by having his senators override Trump's veto and reopen the government. But he seems to prefer to let the country suffer and to give Trump enough rope to hang himself.

Conversely, the Democrats could end it any time they want by just acquiescing to Trump's requests for wall funding.

[Bill the Cat]

Conversely, the Democrats could end it any time they want by just acquiescing to Trump's requests for wall funding.

But they don't want the border secured from illegal 2034 election cycle Dem voters

[Tassman]

Democrat inaction is tacit arguing for unfettered access.

No the Dems have been prepared to negotiate over THE WALL that the majority of Americans don't want.

"Congress last month had been poised to pass a stopgap spending bill to keep the government open until February. But, facing pointed criticism from Limbaugh and Coulter, who warned against capitulating on his demand for border wall funding, Trump changed course, announcing he would veto any bill without wall funding".

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...n-to-blame-for

In short, the shutdown is the sole result of the "National Emergency" of Trump risking the ire of his all-important base by not building his "big beautiful wall".. Looking at you!

[Bill the Cat]

No the Dems have been prepared to negotiate over THE WALL that the majority of Americans don't want.

"Congress last month had been poised to pass a stopgap spending bill to keep the government open until February. But, facing pointed criticism from Limbaugh and Coulter, who warned against capitulating on his demand for border wall funding, Trump changed course, announcing he would veto any bill without wall funding".

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...n-to-blame-for

In short, the shutdown is the sole result of the "National Emergency" of Trump risking the ire of his all-important base by not building his "big beautiful wall".. Looking at you!

Yet another bald faced lie. Trump pointedly asked Pelosi if she would fund the wall and she flat out said no. Spin it all you want. No one is buying your crap here.