Shutdown Over Border Security?

[carpedm9587]

That's not how this works, Jim. That's never how it works. Giving up leverage is stupid. The Democrats could always count on the Republicans caving anyway, but this time around things might be different.

So then you acknowledge that the government employees are "leverage."

A hostage by any other name...?

ETA: It also appears that the "compromise" incorporates a significant number of hardliner stances on other immigration issues that serve as essentially "poison pills" because they are positions Dems are known to be averse to. These are formalized in the Republican Senate bill, which doesn't look like it has enough votes to pass. Interestingly, I was looking for any reporting on this from the right-leaning media outlets - and they appear to be ignoring it entirely. I haven't found a single report about it from the right. Can anyone point me to one?

[Bill the Cat]

• Trump: "I am proud to shut down the government for border security."
• Trump: "If we don’t get what we want, one way or the other, whether it’s through you, through military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government,”
• Trump: "I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it."

Source

But it's Pelosi taking hostages?

• The message from Trump: Give me what I want and I won't reopen the government until you do.
• The message from Pelosi: Let's get the government employees out of the middle, open government, and then negotiate on the border issues.

And which one is holding hostage again...?

Pelosi is. Trump offered some concessions and Pelosi has offered nothing. And if you think Pelosi will ever bring up anything except FULL citizenship for illegals brought here as children, you are more naive than I ever considered.

[One Bad Pig]

So then you acknowledge that the government employees are "leverage."

A hostage by any other name...?

It's Congress' job to fund the government. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer can end this any time they like by presenting an appropriations bill that the President is willing to sign (or, failing that, one in which they can override his veto).

[carpedm9587]

It's Congress' job to fund the government. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer can end this any time they like by presenting an appropriations bill that the President is willing to sign (or, failing that, one in which they can override his veto).

Actually, several bills have been passed by the house. The Senate will not bring them to a vote.

And while Congress funds the government, the president retains the power of a veto.

It takes two to tango....

[Mountain Man]

Uh-oh, descension in the ranks...

Democrats are livid about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s continued refusal, on their behalf, to engage in any negotiations with President Donald Trump over his planned wall along the U.S. border with Mexico.

Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-MI), a freshman from Michigan, is publicly urging Pelosi to drop the games and “get in the damn room” with Trump and negotiate on the wall.

“We all have a fire under us to get something done,” Slotkin said, per a local news report. “We’re trying to still figure out the dynamic between all of us, and the leadership is still trying to figure out how to manage this very, very energetic and outspoken class.”

...

At a town hall in New York, freshman Democrat Rep. Antonio Delgado (D-NY) pushed for a compromise with Trump.

“There is common ground,” Delgado said, according to a local news report. “I don’t think there’s much disagreement on the fact that we do have to figure out how to secure our borders. We do have to figure out how to course correct our immigration system, it is flawed, it is broken, we do need to figure out some concrete ways how to solve the problem and do so in a collaborative and cooperative fashion, absolutely.”

Rep. Ben McAdams (D-UT) even praised the president for his latest proposal of a temporary extension of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and recipients of Temporary Protected Status (TPS) in exchange for the wall–something the president laid out this past Saturday.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...n-border-wall/

[JimL]

You're a deluded lunatic. Pelosi is the hostage taker.

Trump disagrees with you, he said he would shut down the government and he said he would take responsibility for it, as he should.

[JimL]

That's not how this works, Jim. That's never how it works. Giving up leverage is stupid. The Democrats could always count on the Republicans caving anyway, but this time around things might be different.

Fine, so long as you've admitted that it is Trump who shut down the government and so Trump who is holding the 800,000 hostages as leverage.

[Bill the Cat]

Trump disagrees with you, he said he would shut down the government and he said he would take responsibility for it, as he should.

That's not hostage taking, you moron. That's acting like an adult. Not surprised you don't recognize it though...

[carpedm9587]

Hmm.... silly duplicate...

[carpedm9587]

Pelosi is. Trump offered some concessions and Pelosi has offered nothing. And if you think Pelosi will ever bring up anything except FULL citizenship for illegals brought here as children, you are more naive than I ever considered.

Trump's concessions (and the Republican bill that formalizes them) incorporates a slate of "poison pills" that guts asylum and TPS for the future. And, as I noted in previous posts, trades a temporary fix for a possible problem (which is still in the courts) for exactly what he wants and a commitment to long-term expenditures. So I think trying to paint all of this on the Dems is a form of partisan myopia.

But I do agree that the Dems have to step up with a proposal of their own pretty soon, or they risk the tide of public opinion turning against them. Hopefully, they are not that foolish.

ETA: As for the full citizenship thing, I hope that is exactly what she brings to the table. The DACA participants, IMO, deserve full citizenship so long as they do not have any legal problems. That is especially true of those who have served in the military.

[firstfloor]

The US may end up being saved from Trump by Trump’s desire to get back on the golf course.

[Tassman]

That's not hostage taking, you moron. That's acting like an adult. Not surprised you don't recognize it though...

It's acting like a petulant child who can't get his own way. Not surprised you don't recognize it though

[rogue06]

Pelosi is. Trump offered some concessions and Pelosi has offered nothing. And if you think Pelosi will ever bring up anything except FULL citizenship for illegals brought here as children, you are more naive than I ever considered.

It can be argued that what Trump offered wasn't sufficient, but what is indisputable is that Pelosi rejected the offered compromise without knowing what was in it so that excuse can not be used as a defense.

That was the moment that she took ownership of the shutdown.

That was why reliably liberal folks like Tom Brokaw announced on MSNBC that Democrats are now as much to blame as Trump for the shutdown.

That was why even the vehemently anti-Trump Washington Post was flabbergasted by her and other Democrat leaders obstinate intransigence noting in their opinion page "Make a deal. Save the dreamers" that

To refuse even to talk until the government reopens does no favors to sidelined federal workers and contractors. . . . A measure of statesmanship for a member of Congress now is the ability to accept some disappointments, and shrug off the inevitable attacks from purists, if it means rescuing the lives of thousands of deserving people living among us.

[Bill the Cat]

It's acting like a petulant child who can't get his own way. Not surprised you don't recognize it though

Sorry, no. Realizing you need additional security that you are ultimately responsible for is an adult responsibility. I wonder if you consider getting a home security system "acting like a petulant child"...

[Bill the Cat]

Trump's concessions (and the Republican bill that formalizes them) incorporates a slate of "poison pills" that guts asylum and TPS for the future.

No they don't.

And, as I noted in previous posts, trades a temporary fix for a possible problem (which is still in the courts) for exactly what he wants and a commitment to long-term expenditures. So I think trying to paint all of this on the Dems is a form of partisan myopia.

Oh, I blame the Republicans too. They had the numbers and time to handle every bit of this, and they sat on their hands. Inaction is just as bad.

But I do agree that the Dems have to step up with a proposal of their own pretty soon, or they risk the tide of public opinion turning against them. Hopefully, they are not that foolish.

ETA: As for the full citizenship thing, I hope that is exactly what she brings to the table. The DACA participants, IMO, deserve full citizenship so long as they do not have any legal problems. That is especially true of those who have served in the military.

They HAVE a legal problem. They are here illegally. And if they served in the military, they either falsified official records or misrepresented their identity - both criminal behavior.

What I think is fair is to let them stay here with relatives who are here legally until their 18th birthday, giving them time to make preparations in their home country, and then send them home. They can apply for citizenship just like any other prospective immigrant.