Shutdown Over Border Security?

[JimL]

Says the Joe Schmoe who keeps telling us what he thinks without any experience on the matter whatsoever.

Please JimL, enlighten us with your experience with the border or illegal aliens crossing the border or crime in El Paso.

You are such a twit.

You don't go by your own personal experience, Sparko. You go by the actual data, and according to the data illegal border crossings are way down and Trump is once again lying to you about the situation now and in the past concerning El Paso. The Republican Mayor of El Paso is well aware of those facts. You are not!

[Tassman]

True. But popularity if a position doesn't make it correct.

So, in your view Trump is correct and 69% of the electorate is incorrect.

And the lies from the media continue.

It’s no good blaming MSM for Trump’s inconsistency and constantly changing narrative.

Trump did not propose a "coast to coast" wall, and has only proposed strategic barriers. So, no. The PRESIDENT'S plan is "a mix of strategic fencing and smart technology" and more personnel.

If that were the case there should be no problem reaching agreement with the Dems. because historically this has long been their position. But Trump’s actual words don’t sound like "a mix of strategic fencing and smart technology" to me. He said "I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words." And he repeated it over and over again.

[Bill the Cat]

So, in your view Trump is correct and 69% of the electorate is incorrect.

In my view, most of the electorate is ignorant and just gorging on the narrative the media is feeding them. I go by personal experience AT the San Ysidro border wall and talking to a dozen actual border patrol agents.

It’s no good blaming MSM for Trump’s inconsistency and constantly changing narrative.

It's perfectly acceptable to point out their fake news crap.

If that were the case there should be no problem reaching agreement with the Dems. because historically this has long been their position.

You prove my point again. The ONLY reason they changed was because Trump wants it too. They are liars and hacks.

But Trump’s actual words don’t sound like "a mix of strategic fencing and smart technology" to me. He said "I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words." And he repeated it over and over again.

And that's your problem, media tourist. You don't actually WANT to read any specifics, which I provided to Carp a few pages ago. You think you know based on what the MSM is spoon-feeding you. They omit based on their own narrative they are crafting. And you slurp it up like the good little sheep you are.

[firstfloor]

The border wall is a palliative because Trump has no intention of delivering any of the things that the country actually needs. Republican voters have been duped.

[Bill the Cat]

You don't go by your own personal experience, Sparko. You go by the actual data, and according to the data illegal border crossings are way down and Trump is once again lying to you about the situation now and in the past concerning El Paso. The Republican Mayor of El Paso is well aware of those facts. You are not!

The data says they are rising since Q2 of FY 2017, and that Q2 of FY 2019 is on pace to be the highest in 12 years.

[Bill the Cat]

The border wall is a palliative because Trump has no intention of delivering any of the things that the country actually needs. Republican voters have been duped.

The Green New Farce is a palliative because none of the ridiculous list of AOC's fantasy land are fiscally possible. Dems have been duped.

[carpedm9587]

The data says they are rising since Q2 of FY 2017, and that Q2 of FY 2019 is on pace to be the highest in 12 years.

Citations, please?

[Bill the Cat]

Citations, please?

My apologies. I got the time frame wrong for the graph I remembered. It's the last 6 years, not 12, although that data also is available at the same site

FY19_JAN_SWB_Migration%20graphic.jpg

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

[carpedm9587]

My apologies. I got the time frame wrong for the graph I remembered. It's the last 6 years, not 12, although that data also is available at the same site

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35005[/ATTACH]

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

So I'm not seeing an enormous amount of "growth" here. It seems to be fluctuating in the "normal" window for the last 6 years, and remains WAY below the peak of the mid 1980s and around 2000 when apprehensions were averaging over 130K per month (over twice the current level).

I'm not seeing "emergency" in this data.

[Bill the Cat]

So I'm not seeing an enormous amount of "growth" here.

Well, considering that's not what I said...

It seems to be fluctuating in the "normal" window for the last 6 years,

Since the end of the second quarter last year, it has jumped from the lowest in 6 years to being on pace to be the highest in 6 years, so as I claimed, the numbers are not "way down". They are rising.

and remains WAY below the peak of the mid 1980s and around 2000 when apprehensions were averaging over 130K per month (over twice the current level).

Again, not what I said.

I'm not seeing "emergency" in this data.

A 268% increase in apprehensions from the end of FY17 Q2 to the beginning of Q2 in FY19 is significant.

[carpedm9587]

Well, considering that's not what I said...

I believe your statement was:

The data says they are rising since Q2 of FY 2017, and that Q2 of FY 2019 is on pace to be the highest in 12 years.

Since the end of the second quarter last year, it has jumped from the lowest in 6 years to being on pace to be the highest in 6 years, so as I claimed, the numbers are not "way down". They are rising.

What I see is "modest growth" in a 6 month period. There is nowhere near enough info to suggest this is a "trend." Indeed, the early 2018 numbers show a slight trend downward from Jan to Feb. I think we need to see where they go over the next several months before it's time to "panic." And modest growth in a few months is still at levels WAY below the peaks.

Again, not what I said.

I don't think I accused you of saying it anywhere, so I don't know why you feel a need to make this response. The point is you are looking at a few months of data when the year over year data is trending downwards for the last two decades. A small increase in a couple of months is nothing, IMO.

A 268% increase in apprehensions from the end of FY17 Q2 to the beginning of Q2 in FY19 is significant.

You know - there's this amazing thing about data - if you pick the lowest point on a chart, it will always be lower than the current point unless today is the lowest ever. So you can always make the claim "increasing" if you use that trick. The same is true in reverse, of course. As a consequence, you can say "increasing" because it's climbing (interestingly enough, under Trump's watch) since 2017. And I can make the opposite claim if I look at a bigger picture (i.e. since 2000 or 1980. And an 82% drop is FAR more significant than a 268% climb. It represents a drop to about 1/6th. You rise is only a tripling.

And, again, if it wasn't a "national emergency" at six times the level it is now, why is it a "national emergency" now?

(I know you did not say "national emergency," but that is what Trump is talking about possibly doing...)

[Tassman]

In my view, most of the electorate is ignorant and just gorging on the narrative the media is feeding them. I go by personal experience AT the San Ysidro border wall and talking to a dozen actual border patrol agents.

Trump is telling demonstrably blatant lies about the wall in El Paso and elsewhere along the border.

It's perfectly acceptable to point out their fake news crap.

The “fake news crap” is Trump’s, not the MSM. Trump is a liar. He’s always been a liar.

You prove my point again. The ONLY reason they changed was because Trump wants it too. They are liars and hacks.

Typical paranoid Trumpian! He has never been interested in "a mix of strategic fencing and smart technology", which is what the Dems want, as does most of Border Patrol. He said "I will build a great, great wall on our southern border”. His only reason is to pander to his relatively small racist base and the Ann Coulter's of this world.

And that's your problem, media tourist. You don't actually WANT to read any specifics, which I provided to Carp a few pages ago. You think you know based on what the MSM is spoon-feeding you. They omit based on their own narrative they are crafting. And you slurp it up like the good little sheep you are.

I was listening to the actual words of the Republican Mayor of El Paso and many others. And the stats do not bear out Trump’s claims. He’s lying.

“Barela, a life-long Republican and former New Mexico assistant attorney general, says that everyone in El Paso wants effective border security, but that a wall is not the answer”.

“Like most of us, we were very surprised by Mr. Trump’s assertion that El Paso had been one of the most dangerous cities in the United States,” Barela tells TIME. “[W]e were astounded by the assertion that somehow a border fence magically transformed El Paso into one of the safest cities in the country. We’ve been safe for decades, long before a border fence was put up and I think I speak for most of us in the region, [we] were pretty surprised by the false assertion.”

http://time.com/5522904/donald-trump-el-paso-wall/

In short Trump is lying and the likes of you believe his lies.

[Sparko]

Trump is telling demonstrably blatant lies about the wall in El Paso and elsewhere along the border.



The “fake news crap” is Trump’s, not the MSM. Trump is a liar. He’s always been a liar.



Typical paranoid Trumpian! He has never been interested in "a mix of strategic fencing and smart technology", which is what the Dems want, as does most of Border Patrol. He said "I will build a great, great wall on our southern border”. His only reason is to pander to his relatively small racist base and the Ann Coulter's of this world.



I was listening to the actual words of the Republican Mayor of El Paso and many others. And the stats do not bear out Trump’s claims. He’s lying.

“Barela, a life-long Republican and former New Mexico assistant attorney general, says that everyone in El Paso wants effective border security, but that a wall is not the answer”.

“Like most of us, we were very surprised by Mr. Trump’s assertion that El Paso had been one of the most dangerous cities in the United States,” Barela tells TIME. “[W]e were astounded by the assertion that somehow a border fence magically transformed El Paso into one of the safest cities in the country. We’ve been safe for decades, long before a border fence was put up and I think I speak for most of us in the region, [we] were pretty surprised by the false assertion.”

http://time.com/5522904/donald-trump-el-paso-wall/

In short Trump is lying and the likes of you believe his lies.

When I lived in El Paso in the early 1970s, and I lived in a decent neighborhood, the school I went to still was full of gangs and they even had large scale "rumbles" on a regular basis with the blacks and hispanics and whites fighting it out. And this was in MIDDLE SCHOOL (5th and 6th grade)

The city had a curfew in place. There were areas we couldn't even go to because of gangs.

So no, it wasn't a safe city.

The current city authorities want to rewrite history. Who would come out and claim that their own city was a cesspool of crime and violence? Marketing dude.

[Bill the Cat]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ion_ideas.html

'CBS Evening News' anchor Jeff Glor reports in an instant poll conducted by the network, 72% of those who watched President Trump's State of the Union approved of his ideas for immigration.

[Mountain Man]

Trump was down at the Texas border recently to rally support for improved border security. Democrat Beto O’Rourke was holding a counter rally and insisting that barriers were inherently immoral. The security measures at O'Rourke's rally of course included plenty of barriers to protect him and his entourage from the crowds.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...el-paso-rally/