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Shutdown Over Border Security?

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  • Originally posted by tassman View Post
    you should look to yourself re looking for selective news stories. No reading of the us constitution would ever uphold the view that a president can declare a state of emergency when there is demonstrably no such emergency and which is unsupported by the majority of the public. Recent pew research polling reveals that most americans oppose a significant expansion of the border wall, and two-thirds oppose trump using emergency powers to fund its construction.
    q.e.d.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      q.e.d.
      You think so? It is highly unlikely Trump’s maneuver will stand up to legal scrutiny once challenged in court. He is trying to circumvent Congress — which is supposed to have the “power of the purse” and which decided against funding his border wall - it’s highly doubtful that Trump can actually use the armed forces for such a project. Moreover, his claim that there’s an emergency at the border that immediately necessitates a border wall is dubious and not accepted by two thirds of the public.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        An interesting interview I heard with an academic several months ago was about some media studies he had been doing. His team had done an automated analysis of hyperlinks posted on twitter and facebook to see what variety of news and opinion sites any given poster linked to. They also did the same analysis on the media outlets themselves to see which media outlets were linking to each other.

        They found that the average liberal tended to have a wide spectrum of media that they would link to - a person who linked to HuffPo might then link to the Wall St Journal then the BBC, etc. In general liberals' media linkage was broad, would include all sorts of mainstream and non-mainstream media, and wasn't tied tightly into any particular site or small set of sites. Conservatives by contrast, exhibited the exact opposite pattern - their links tended to all go to the same small range of sites which themselves almost solely linked to other members of their own group. This tight far-right Drudge-Fox-Breitbart sphere of sites and hangers-on was found to be very isolated from the remainder of the broad spectrum of American and global news and opinion sites that liberals were interested in.

        They also had a manual look at the question of: When one site critiqued a story from another site, why did it critique it? The pattern they saw in mainstream media and liberal sites was a "fact-check" - if one site spotted any error in another site's reporting of a story, they would post an article explaining the error. However they found almost none of this at all among the tight conservative sphere of sites. When one conservative site critiqued another's story, it was almost always critiqued on ideological purity grounds - namely the site would accuse the writer of the original piece of not being sufficiently conservative.

        In both cases the conservatives are showing cult-like behavior: A tightly enclosed sphere of 'legitimate information', combined with a focus on purity of ideas rather than factual truth of them. Whereas the liberals are acting like you'd expect a standard media-consumer to act - wanting to know facts and not being particularly concerned about the source so long as the information being conveyed was factually accurately and liking to see it rapidly corrected if it wasn't.
        I would love the link to that study.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          You think so? It is highly unlikely Trump’s maneuver will stand up to legal scrutiny once challenged in court. He is trying to circumvent Congress — which is supposed to have the “power of the purse” and which decided against funding his border wall - it’s highly doubtful that Trump can actually use the armed forces for such a project. Moreover, his claim that there’s an emergency at the border that immediately necessitates a border wall is dubious and not accepted by two thirds of the public.
          I think you forget that the courts have swung hard to the right under Trump, and SCOTUS is now dominated by originalists and conservatives. The National Emergencies Act has never been ruled unconstitutional. I doubt it is going to be under this court. My prediction (which I have made before): this will go all the way to SCOTUS and SCOTUS will split 5-4 in favor of Trump.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            It's a common US conservative way of insulting their cult from other opinions...

            Foreigners aren't allowed to have views cos they aren't American.
            Media views are discounted cos they're the 'fake news liberal media'.
            Academic views are discounted cos they're liberal.

            It allows US conservatives to basically clap their hands over their ears and sing 'la la la' when it comes to hearing views other than their own.
            Funny, liberals think when it comes to pregnancy, men have no say because they are not women. In matters of race, whites can't comment on black issues because they are not black, or on gay issues if they are not gay, etc. Yet you feel perfectly qualified to comment on US Politics when you are not a US citizen.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Funny, liberals think when it comes to pregnancy, men have no say because they are not women. In matters of race, whites can't comment on black issues because they are not black, or on gay issues if they are not gay, etc. Yet you feel perfectly qualified to comment on US Politics when you are not a US citizen.
              You're painting with an amazingly wide brush, there, Sparko.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                You're painting with an amazingly wide brush, there, Sparko.
                No, I am merely comparing the double standard of liberals.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  No, I am merely comparing the double standard of liberals.
                  And there's that wide brush again...

                  Repeat after me..."some liberals." More accurately, "some people."

                  On social issues, I am actually quite liberal (as I'm sure you know). I hold none of the positions you outlined. I have no problem commenting on gay issues, black issues, or women's issues, and I am none of the above.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    And there's that wide brush again...

                    Repeat after me..."some liberals." More accurately, "some people."

                    On social issues, I am actually quite liberal (as I'm sure you know). I hold none of the positions you outlined. I have no problem commenting on gay issues, black issues, or women's issues, and I am none of the above.
                    good for you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      good for you.
                      Way to divert from the point, Sparko.

                      The point is that you are falling into the trap of painting all "liberals" with a single brush. That's both incorrect, and dangerous. The latter because it begins to make all liberals "them" and makes it easier to hate "them." After all, "them" is not "us."

                      And I frankly don't personally know ANY liberals that meet your description, making me wonder just how correct it is to begin with.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        Way to divert from the point, Sparko.

                        The point is that you are falling into the trap of painting all "liberals" with a single brush. That's both incorrect, and dangerous. The latter because it begins to make all liberals "them" and makes it easier to hate "them." After all, "them" is not "us."

                        And I frankly don't personally know ANY liberals that meet your description, making me wonder just how correct it is to begin with.
                        Your personal acquaintances are just examples and don't count.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Your personal acquaintances are just examples and don't count.
                          Actually - when you paint with an absolute...the implication being that "all" liberals to do these things...all I need is a single instance of a liberal that doesn't think that way to disprove your claim.

                          The fact that NONE of my liberal acquaintances think this way (AFAIK) is just gravy...
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Actually - when you paint with an absolute...the implication being that "all" liberals to do these things...all I need is a single instance of a liberal that doesn't think that way to disprove your claim.

                            The fact that NONE of my liberal acquaintances think this way (AFAIK) is just gravy...
                            I never said "all" - you just assumed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              I never said "all" - you just assumed.
                              Your statement was:

                              Funny, liberals think when it comes to pregnancy, men have no say because they are not women. In matters of race, whites can't comment on black issues because they are not black, or on gay issues if they are not gay, etc. Yet you feel perfectly qualified to comment on US Politics when you are not a US citizen.


                              The lack of any qualifier in front of "liberals" means the phrase applies to the class as a whole. You did not say "some liberals" or "most liberals" or "a few liberals." You simply said "liberals."

                              That is not an assumption - it is conventional English usage.

                              And it's a good example of what I mentioned earlier: people who use such broad brushes seldom say, "yeah - I did that - sorry. It was too broad." They just double-down and defend it - or they insist it's "not what they meant." I can only report on what you said. If it's not what you meant, then your choice of words could bear some improvement.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Your statement was:

                                Funny, liberals think when it comes to pregnancy, men have no say because they are not women. In matters of race, whites can't comment on black issues because they are not black, or on gay issues if they are not gay, etc. Yet you feel perfectly qualified to comment on US Politics when you are not a US citizen.


                                The lack of any qualifier in front of "liberals" means the phrase applies to the class as a whole. You did not say "some liberals" or "most liberals" or "a few liberals." You simply said "liberals."

                                That is not an assumption - it is conventional English usage.

                                And it's a good example of what I mentioned earlier: people who use such broad brushes seldom say, "yeah - I did that - sorry. It was too broad." They just double-down and defend it - or they insist it's "not what they meant." I can only report on what you said. If it's not what you meant, then your choice of words could bear some improvement.
                                Again, you assumed. You shouldn't do that. There is some saying about that I think..

                                Are you taking nanny lessons from Chuck?

                                Comment

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