Shutdown Over Border Security?

[rogue06]

It's CNN. What did you expect?

It wasn't just CNN.

NBC's Chief White House correspondent Hallie Jackson and Ali Velshi, a senior economic and business correspondent for NBC News were railing and ranting about Trump's "sophomoric ... power play." On MSNBC Live host Katy Tur and her panelists were blasting Trump as a "man baby." New York Times columnist Bret Stephens was denouncing Trump for being "incredibly foolish" and "childish."

Note that there was no such criticism of Pelosi but rather praise.

[Tassman]

"Comprehensive immigration reform" includes a wall. That is why an overwhelming percentage of those who patrol the border support it.

What the border patrol wants is strategic extra fencing in some areas (not a Trumpian wall) to compliment the fencing already there...with which Pelosi has agreed. But overall, she prefers a “technological wall of sensors and drones” and better security at other points of entry, which is where most of the bad people and drugs enter the country. But this can be negotiated with the government. Trump can reopen the government any time he chooses, he's not dependent on the Dems for that. It is unlikely there will be much substantive discussion without it and meanwhile people are suffering.

[carpedm9587]

It wasn't just CNN.

NBC's Chief White House correspondent Hallie Jackson and Ali Velshi, a senior economic and business correspondent for NBC News were railing and ranting about Trump's "sophomoric ... power play." On MSNBC Live host Katy Tur and her panelists were blasting Trump as a "man baby." New York Times columnist Bret Stephens was denouncing Trump for being "incredibly foolish" and "childish."

Note that there was no such criticism of Pelosi but rather praise.

Again - MSNBC is ranked just slightly to the left of CNN - and both as far left as Fox is right. So...again... what did you expect?

[Mountain Man]

Again - MSNBC is ranked just slightly to the left of CNN - and both as far left as Fox is right. So...again... what did you expect?

I find it somewhat ironic that earlier you linked to an editorial from CNN that you praised for its even handedness despite the fact that it was more critical of Trump than it was of Pelosi. I suppose the fact that it criticized Pelosi at all is what you found noteworthy?

[carpedm9587]

I find it somewhat ironic that earlier you linked to an editorial from CNN that you praised for its even handedness despite the fact that it was more critical of Trump than it was of Pelosi. I suppose the fact that it criticized Pelosi at all is what you found noteworthy?

Umm...praised for it's evenhandedness?

I believe I said: "I found this little gem rather amusing - and pretty much spot on for the two children currently spatting in Washington"

I then quoted a single line from a CNN editorial and linked the source so others could see the context (and because I thin I should link sources when I quote another person's work). I found (and continue to find) the line I quoted to be a concise and accurate description of the two people involved (Pelosi and Trump). I said nothing about the overall editorial. You seem to have added that meaning to my post.

[Mountain Man]

Umm...praised for it's evenhandedness?

Yes. You declared it "pretty much spot on" suggesting a fair analysis and then posted a line from the article which essentially said, "Pelosi can do better, but Trump can't."

[Bill the Cat]

What the border patrol wants is strategic extra fencing in some areas (not a Trumpian wall)

You have no idea what the "Trumpian wall" means, idiot. You are a spoon-fed news tourist.

to compliment the fencing already there...with which Pelosi has agreed.

But not offered anywhere close to the amount actually needed.

But overall, she prefers a “technological wall of sensors and drones”

Which have been shown to simply not work except under the most idealistic circumstances.

and better security at other points of entry, which is where most of the bad people and drugs enter the country.

One out of 3 is awful, unless you are batting in the bottom 3.

But this can be negotiated with the government.

What's been the holdup for the past 10 years?

Trump can reopen the government any time he chooses, he's not dependent on the Dems for that.

If he bends, the Dems will NEVER offer what is needed. They will throw a pittance at the problem and act like they have offered the world. It's like I said... the Dem approach is "Let them eat cake"...

It is unlikely there will be much substantive discussion without it and meanwhile people are suffering.

So, act like a Democrat and spend the money.

[JimL]

I not only think so - I actually hope so.

But I prefer not to call him a "treasonous crook." Those are legal terms and there has been no judicial conclusion, at this point. I have no idea of Trump has been treasonous - or if he is a crook, so I prefer NOT to do what he and many who follow him do - and call for a verdict before there has been a trial.

I DO think he is a vile man. But I want that vile man right where he is for the next two years. The alternatives, IMO, are worse.

Actually I've made the same argument carpe. I was just asking the question, and I'm not sure of the answer. With the damage he is doing to the country and to democracy here and around the world, it may be better to impeach and indict him sooner than later. It's a predicament. I'm sure that Putin wakes up every morning with a smile on his face seeing the havoc his good buddy Trump is doing. As far as being a crook, and a political criminal, I would disagree with you. I think there is plenty of evidence of that.

[Sparko]

I found this little gem rather amusing - and pretty much spot on for the two children currently spatting in Washington:

If Pelosi's political calculations make her unlikely to take the high road any time soon, Trump's personality doesn't even allow him to see that a high road exists.

Source

What is the "high road" that Pelosi should take?

[JimL]

What is the "high road" that Pelosi should take?

Good question. It's a difficult one to answer because on the one hand she has to recognize the damage that Trumps shutdown is doing to people and the economy, and on the other hand she has to understand that negotiating with hostage takers is bad policy. What the democrats should do is give the hostage taker his 5.7 billion for border security so that people can get back to work and the economy isn't damaged further with a stipulation in the agreement that bans ever again shutting down the government as a negotiating tactic in the future.

[Bill the Cat]

... What the democrats should do is give Trump (FIFY N/C) his 5.7 billion for border security so that people can get back to work and the economy isn't damaged further with a stipulation in the agreement that bans ever again shutting down the government as a negotiating tactic in the future.

Holy crap. We actually agree on something...

[One Bad Pig]

Holy crap. We actually agree on something...

Make that two of us.

I don't know that such a stipulation is realistically feasible, however. I'm all for making a shutdown more onerous on those negotiating, though (such as keeping the President and Congress in Washington & in session until the impasse is resolved).

[Mountain Man]

It seems to me that the Democrats have yet to realize that they're in a no-win scenario. They can either give Trump the funding he's requested, or they can continue to stonewall and give Trump the opportunity to say that he did everything he could to get the funding, but the Democrats refused to compromise. Either way, Trump comes out on top.

Seems some people still haven't figured out that Trump doesn't put a plan into motion until after he's already figured out the part where he wins.

[Sparko]

Good question. It's a difficult one to answer because on the one hand she has to recognize the damage that Trumps shutdown is doing to people and the economy, and on the other hand she has to understand that negotiating with hostage takers is bad policy. What the democrats should do is give the hostage taker his 5.7 billion for border security so that people can get back to work and the economy isn't damaged further with a stipulation in the agreement that bans ever again shutting down the government as a negotiating tactic in the future.

The one's holding the country hostage is Pelosi and crew.

So you support building a wall now.

[JimL]

The one's holding the country hostage is Pelosi and crew.

Wrong. It's Trumps "give me what I ask for or i'll shut the government down."

So you support building a wall now.

Nope, and his 5.7 billion ain't gonna to build him his wall, but it will end the hostage crisis and prevent the hostage taker from resorting to that tactic again.