Originally posted by carpedm9587
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Shutdown Over Border Security?
Collapse
X
-
And yes, in theory, Trump could build the wall over a longer period of time just like we could roll out disaster relief after a hurricane over a 2-year period instead of 2-days, but by then the damage would be done, so you declare a state of emergency and get the relief to the area as quickly as possible. The same principle applies here.
To put it another way, you could, in theory, lock the barn tomorrow while the horses are escaping today, but wouldn't it make more sense to lock it immediately?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostAre you deliberately misdescribing a libertarian as a 'leftist' to try to deceive readers here?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYour lack of self-awareness is almost startling sometimes. You want to talk about spin, Trump could say, "The sky is blue," and liberals like you would line up to denounce him because sometimes the sky is cloudy and grey, and sometimes it's orange and purple if there is a dramatic sunset, and for half of every 24-hour period, it's black.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBesides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?
BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostA list of...?
BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostA list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?
I was going there!
Frankly - the "master negotiator" put himself in an unworkable position. If he signed the spending bill and did not declare an emergency, some on the right were going to be ticked at him for caving. If he signed the spending bill and did declare an emergency (which is what he did), others on the right were going to be ticked at him for abusing executive power. If he didn't sign and shut down the government again, he would be heading back into the rat hole he was in last January. Not signing and declaring a national emergency would have ticked off even more people. He basically left himself with no avenues that didn't have a downside for him.
So much for "the art of the deal."Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-16-2019, 10:59 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWhere did I suggest there was a list?
You had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".
Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".
"Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostA list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?
...experts on presidential powers and immigration enforcement say that Congress has granted Trump, and presidents before him, wide latitude to invoke emergency powers. He also has a sympathetic Supreme Court that has demonstrated willingness to back him in the event of a court challenge.
“Congress has left very broad powers in the hands of whoever is president to declare emergencies for reasons vague, imagined or real,” said Michael Waldman, president at the Brennan Center for Justice. “And presidents have a lot of power when they do that.”
The Brennan Center for Justice has identified 136 statutory powers that a president can invoke just by signing his name.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...224112550.html
The Brennan Center, building on previous research, has identified 123 statutory powers that may become available to the president when he declares a national emergency, including two that might offer some legal cover for his wall-building ambitions (10 U.S.C. 2808 (a) and 33 U.S.C. 2293 on our list below). An additional 13 statutory powers become available when a national emergency is declared by Congress.
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/emergency-powers
So, no, Trump isn't setting a dangerous precedent, nor is he opening the door for a future Democrat president to arbitrarily declare a national emergency to enact things like a gun grab, or force a government take over of the healthcare industry.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou're not that dense, my friend.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".
Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".
"Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.
While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe other thing is that a precedent for declaring an emergency with regards to immigration already exists as a matter of law....
Well, yeah, there's that, too.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou're misinterpreting in the first. "Ticking off" suggests he is making them angry. There is no "process" or "ongoing activity" implied. "My decision to drop out of college is ticking off my father," is a perfectly acceptable sentence and does not suggest there is a list of things I am doing to tick off my father. Dropping out is enough.
While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, in only this ONE instance?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, he's an equal opportunity ticker-offer?Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-16-2019, 11:38 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo. Are you being purposefully convoluted and dense?
What on earth does the presence of a plural have to do with "equal opportunity?"
CP - you're not making a great deal of sense.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'll leave you to your tirade.
Trump declared a national emergency.
That is ticking off some of his base
It is a bad precedent (which will become "precedents as he begins robbing different funds).
I have no idea why this is confusing to you - or why you seem to find my responses "obtuse."
I'll leave you to your confusion.
ETA: I do find is somewhat amusing that you get to toss out "dense" and "obtuse" but when I use the terms I'm having a "tirade." Pot - kettle - black - maybe?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
|
16 responses
163 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
Yesterday, 11:55 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
53 responses
400 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Mountain Man
Yesterday, 11:32 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
25 responses
114 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 08:36 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
33 responses
198 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Roy
Yesterday, 07:43 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
84 responses
382 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
Yesterday, 11:08 AM
|
Comment