Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Shutdown Over Border Security?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents.
    Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • And yes, in theory, Trump could build the wall over a longer period of time just like we could roll out disaster relief after a hurricane over a 2-year period instead of 2-days, but by then the damage would be done, so you declare a state of emergency and get the relief to the area as quickly as possible. The same principle applies here.

      To put it another way, you could, in theory, lock the barn tomorrow while the horses are escaping today, but wouldn't it make more sense to lock it immediately?
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Are you deliberately misdescribing a libertarian as a 'leftist' to try to deceive readers here?
        Turley describes himself as being liberal and is widely viewed as such by folks from both sides of the aisle although not of the wild-eyed wacko variety that thinks that Stalin was a right-winger and that mothers have the choice to murder their infant children if ever they tire of them.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Your lack of self-awareness is almost startling sometimes. You want to talk about spin, Trump could say, "The sky is blue," and liberals like you would line up to denounce him because sometimes the sky is cloudy and grey, and sometimes it's orange and purple if there is a dramatic sunset, and for half of every 24-hour period, it's black.
          And that is a marvelous sidetrack that completely avoids the point that was made. Well done!
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?
            A list of...?


            BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              A list of...?
              A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?

              BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."
              I was going there!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?

                I was going there!
                Where did I suggest there was a list?

                Frankly - the "master negotiator" put himself in an unworkable position. If he signed the spending bill and did not declare an emergency, some on the right were going to be ticked at him for caving. If he signed the spending bill and did declare an emergency (which is what he did), others on the right were going to be ticked at him for abusing executive power. If he didn't sign and shut down the government again, he would be heading back into the rat hole he was in last January. Not signing and declaring a national emergency would have ticked off even more people. He basically left himself with no avenues that didn't have a downside for him.

                So much for "the art of the deal."
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-16-2019, 10:59 AM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Where did I suggest there was a list?
                  You're not that dense, my friend.

                  You had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

                  Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

                  "Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?
                    The other thing is that a precedent for declaring an emergency with regards to immigration already exists as a matter of law.

                    ...experts on presidential powers and immigration enforcement say that Congress has granted Trump, and presidents before him, wide latitude to invoke emergency powers. He also has a sympathetic Supreme Court that has demonstrated willingness to back him in the event of a court challenge.

                    “Congress has left very broad powers in the hands of whoever is president to declare emergencies for reasons vague, imagined or real,” said Michael Waldman, president at the Brennan Center for Justice. “And presidents have a lot of power when they do that.”

                    The Brennan Center for Justice has identified 136 statutory powers that a president can invoke just by signing his name.

                    https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...224112550.html

                    The Brennan Center, building on previous research, has identified 123 statutory powers that may become available to the president when he declares a national emergency, including two that might offer some legal cover for his wall-building ambitions (10 U.S.C. 2808 (a) and 33 U.S.C. 2293 on our list below). An additional 13 statutory powers become available when a national emergency is declared by Congress.

                    https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/emergency-powers

                    So, no, Trump isn't setting a dangerous precedent, nor is he opening the door for a future Democrat president to arbitrarily declare a national emergency to enact things like a gun grab, or force a government take over of the healthcare industry.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      You're not that dense, my friend.
                      How generous of you. You're not that condescending, my friend...

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      You had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

                      Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

                      "Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.
                      You're misinterpreting in the first. "Ticking off" suggests he is making them angry. There is no "process" or "ongoing activity" implied. "My decision to drop out of college is ticking off my father," is a perfectly acceptable sentence and does not suggest there is a list of things I am doing to tick off my father. Dropping out is enough.

                      While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        The other thing is that a precedent for declaring an emergency with regards to immigration already exists as a matter of law....

                        Well, yeah, there's that, too.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          You're misinterpreting in the first. "Ticking off" suggests he is making them angry. There is no "process" or "ongoing activity" implied. "My decision to drop out of college is ticking off my father," is a perfectly acceptable sentence and does not suggest there is a list of things I am doing to tick off my father. Dropping out is enough.
                          So, in only this ONE instance? Sheeeesh... are you being PURPOSELY obtuse?

                          While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."
                          So, he's an equal opportunity ticker-offer?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            So, in only this ONE instance?
                            One instance of what? "Ticking off" is in reference to his national emergency declaration. I'm sure he will tick off even more as he actually begins taking money from Peter to pay Paul.

                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            So, he's an equal opportunity ticker-offer?
                            What on earth does the presence of a plural have to do with "equal opportunity?"
                            Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-16-2019, 11:38 AM.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              No. Are you being purposefully convoluted and dense?



                              What on earth does the presence of a plural have to do with "equal opportunity?"

                              CP - you're not making a great deal of sense.
                              I'll leave you to your tirade.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I'll leave you to your tirade.
                                CP - are you smoking something this morning? You're not making a lot of sense. The original post is pretty simple:

                                Trump declared a national emergency.
                                That is ticking off some of his base
                                It is a bad precedent (which will become "precedents as he begins robbing different funds).

                                I have no idea why this is confusing to you - or why you seem to find my responses "obtuse."

                                I'll leave you to your confusion.


                                ETA: I do find is somewhat amusing that you get to toss out "dense" and "obtuse" but when I use the terms I'm having a "tirade." Pot - kettle - black - maybe?
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                163 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                400 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                382 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X