Shutdown Over Border Security?

[Starlight]

The precedent originates with "I have a pen and a phone."

I wish Obama had had the guts to actually force his policies on the country in the way delusional Republicans interpreted this statement as meaning he would. Instead Obama twiddled his thumbs for two terms while the Republicans read bedtime stories to their kids from the Senate floor as they gridlocked the government.

I see Nancy Pelosi noted that though she doesn't support any President using emergency powers where they are unnecessary, that Trump doing so would be a useful precedent if the next Democratic president wanted to declare a national emergency regarding gun violence in the US and do some gun control. I'd support that even if she wouldn't.

[firstfloor]

The wall is now and was always an electioneering stunt. And if some idiot says, “I think I’ll have an emergency next month”, you know it’s not an emergency.

This nonsense is all to distract you while Trump goes about implementing Putin’s foreign policy.

[Bill the Cat]

The wall is now and was always an electioneering stunt. And if some idiot says, “I think I’ll have an emergency next month”, you know it’s not an emergency.

This nonsense is all to distract you while Trump goes about implementing Putin’s foreign policy.

Ff is proof that Neanderthal are not extinct...

[lilpixieofterror]

The wall is now and was always an electioneering stunt. And if some idiot says, “I think I’ll have an emergency next month”, you know it’s not an emergency.

This nonsense is all to distract you while Trump goes about implementing Putin’s foreign policy.

Sorry, but your conspiracy theory is falling to pieces. Might want to find a new conspiracy theory.

[Terraceth]

Your delusions are so entertaining.

Starlight could be in error about the extremes to which a Democrat president would utilize the "national emergency" to bypass congress for their pet projects or who that president would be, but it's hardly delusional to consider the fact future Democratic presidents would absolutely utilize this as precedent if Trump gets away with it. Conservatives are warning against this possibility:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...nal-emergency/
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...ation-n2541522
https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/...nal-emergency/

[lilpixieofterror]

Starlight could be in error about the extremes to which a Democrat president would utilize the "national emergency" to bypass congress for their pet projects or who that president would be, but it's hardly delusional to consider the fact future Democratic presidents would absolutely utilize this as precedent if Trump gets away with it. Conservatives are warning against this possibility:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...nal-emergency/
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...ation-n2541522
https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/...nal-emergency/

With the way Democrats seem to be determined to show their crazy, they seem pretty determined to make Trump a two term president.

[carpedm9587]

So do you not care that 20 points worth of Democrats are that stupid?

I don't think either the Democrats or the Republicans are "stupid." Indeed, you are assuming the motivation is "I hate Trump." Why can't the motivation be, "you know, I have been for a wall for a long time, and now along comes this odious man who is also for a wall - so maybe I should look at why I hold that position and see if it passes the sniff test?"

And if "taking any position that is the opposite of what X wants" makes one stupid - then Trump has to be looked at closely - because he takes any position that is the opposite of what Obama did - even when he is on tape holding the opposite position previously. And then there are all the pundits on the right who screamed when Obama did or said X and praised when Trump did or said the same thing.

Consistency is not exactly the hallmark of politics.

For myself - I don't care what their reasoning is. If it IS "hatred of Trump," then it provides hope that this odious man will be gone by January 21st, 2021. Only two more years. I cannot wait!

[Starlight]

"Repubs must not allow Pres Obama to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress."
-Donald Trump 2014

If Trump declares a national emergency he'll be failing by his own metric here.

I'm also pretty sure that the executive seizing power from the other branches of government is a major item on the "steps toward fascist dictatorship" checklist, that he'd be checking off here.

[Littlejoe]

"Repubs must not allow Pres Obama to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress."
-Donald Trump 2014

If Trump declares a national emergency he'll be failing by his own metric here.

I'm also pretty sure that the executive seizing power from the other branches of government is a major item on the "steps toward fascist dictatorship" checklist, that he'd be checking off here.

Hog wash. Obama invoked it how many times? And Bush and Clinton? In fact, US presidents have invoked 58 National Emergencies since 1979.


Don't look now, but your TDS is showing.

[Bill the Cat]

It's now been declared.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...019/index.html

[Cow Poke]

It's now been declared.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...019/index.html

And Trump is rambling on and on and on and on.... I wish he would just come up with some important bullet points, stick to the script, and move on.

[Bill the Cat]

And Trump is rambling on and on and on and on.... I wish he would just come up with some important bullet points, stick to the script, and move on.

He loves to hear himself talk.

[Cow Poke]

He loves to hear himself talk.

And, in the process, he arms his opponents well.

[Bill the Cat]

And, in the process, he arms his opponents well.

Shapiro said the other day that if he would just shut up for 2 years, the Dems would HAND him the WH in 2020 with their craziness. He will not comply...

[carpedm9587]

Hog wash. Obama invoked it how many times? And Bush and Clinton? In fact, US presidents have invoked 58 National Emergencies since 1979.

Don't look now, but your TDS is showing.

Hog wash. Trump is trying to make an end-run around Congress because he didn't get what he wants and needs to save face with his base. It's pretty much exactly what Obama did: can't get Congress to do it - so I'll do it by executive fiat.

The question is not "does the executive have the authority to declare a national emergency." The answer to that is yes. The question is, "is there actually an emergency or is trump simply using the law to get his way." As far as I can tell, he is doing the latter. There is no demonstrable emergency at the border. The situation is actually BETTER than it was in the mid 1980s and around 2000, when the flow of illegal immigrants was almost six times what it is now, and no "national emergency" was declared. It is about one fifth of what it was on 9/11 - and no national emergency at the southern border (that was different from the general situation throughout the country) was declared, AFAIK.

Sometimes I think "TDS" should stand for "Trump Deranged Support."

But don't get me wrong - I'm happy he's doing it. It will head for the courts and it will rally the moderates and left even more. Almost anything that gets folks out in 2020 and gets this odious man out of office is fine by me.