Shutdown Over Border Security?

[Cow Poke]

He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents.

Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?

[Mountain Man]

And yes, in theory, Trump could build the wall over a longer period of time just like we could roll out disaster relief after a hurricane over a 2-year period instead of 2-days, but by then the damage would be done, so you declare a state of emergency and get the relief to the area as quickly as possible. The same principle applies here.

To put it another way, you could, in theory, lock the barn tomorrow while the horses are escaping today, but wouldn't it make more sense to lock it immediately?

[rogue06]

Are you deliberately misdescribing a libertarian as a 'leftist' to try to deceive readers here?

Turley describes himself as being liberal and is widely viewed as such by folks from both sides of the aisle although not of the wild-eyed wacko variety that thinks that Stalin was a right-winger and that mothers have the choice to murder their infant children if ever they tire of them.

[carpedm9587]

Your lack of self-awareness is almost startling sometimes. You want to talk about spin, Trump could say, "The sky is blue," and liberals like you would line up to denounce him because sometimes the sky is cloudy and grey, and sometimes it's orange and purple if there is a dramatic sunset, and for half of every 24-hour period, it's black.

And that is a marvelous sidetrack that completely avoids the point that was made. Well done!

[carpedm9587]

Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?

A list of...?


BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."

[Cow Poke]

A list of...?

A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?

BTW - you should have called me on the broad brush of my post. I should have written, "and now he's ticking off many on right as well as most on the left."

I was going there!

[carpedm9587]

A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?

I was going there!

Where did I suggest there was a list?

Frankly - the "master negotiator" put himself in an unworkable position. If he signed the spending bill and did not declare an emergency, some on the right were going to be ticked at him for caving. If he signed the spending bill and did declare an emergency (which is what he did), others on the right were going to be ticked at him for abusing executive power. If he didn't sign and shut down the government again, he would be heading back into the rat hole he was in last January. Not signing and declaring a national emergency would have ticked off even more people. He basically left himself with no avenues that didn't have a downside for him.

So much for "the art of the deal."

[Cow Poke]

Where did I suggest there was a list?

You're not that dense, my friend.

You had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

"Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.

[Mountain Man]

A list of the ways Trump is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents" aside from the declaration of emergency on the border, which is why I had said, "Besides the declaration of emergency on the border issue, can you give me a list?" Or am I wrong in assuming you were referring to the declaration of emergency and branching out from there?

The other thing is that a precedent for declaring an emergency with regards to immigration already exists as a matter of law.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...224112550.html

The Brennan Center, building on previous research, has identified 123 statutory powers that may become available to the president when he declares a national emergency, including two that might offer some legal cover for his wall-building ambitions (10 U.S.C. 2808 (a) and 33 U.S.C. 2293 on our list below). An additional 13 statutory powers become available when a national emergency is declared by Congress.

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/emergency-powers

So, no, Trump isn't setting a dangerous precedent, nor is he opening the door for a future Democrat president to arbitrarily declare a national emergency to enact things like a gun grab, or force a government take over of the healthcare industry.

[carpedm9587]

You're not that dense, my friend.

How generous of you. You're not that condescending, my friend...

You had said, "He's now ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

Is it ONLY this incident - the declaration of emergency (if, in fact, that's what you're referencing) or are there other things that Trump is doing where he is "ticking off the right as well as the left, and setting some amazing precedents".

"Ticking" makes it sound like an ongoing thing, not just one occurrence, and "amazing precedents" would indicate more than just this one.

You're misinterpreting in the first. "Ticking off" suggests he is making them angry. There is no "process" or "ongoing activity" implied. "My decision to drop out of college is ticking off my father," is a perfectly acceptable sentence and does not suggest there is a list of things I am doing to tick off my father. Dropping out is enough.

While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."

[Cow Poke]

The other thing is that a precedent for declaring an emergency with regards to immigration already exists as a matter of law....

Well, yeah, there's that, too.

[Cow Poke]

You're misinterpreting in the first. "Ticking off" suggests he is making them angry. There is no "process" or "ongoing activity" implied. "My decision to drop out of college is ticking off my father," is a perfectly acceptable sentence and does not suggest there is a list of things I am doing to tick off my father. Dropping out is enough.

So, in only this ONE instance? Sheeeesh... are you being PURPOSELY obtuse?

While Trump has done one major thing right now to tick off members of the right, that one thing (declaring an emergency) will have him dipping into multiple pots to get his money - hence "precedents."

So, he's an equal opportunity ticker-offer?

[carpedm9587]

So, in only this ONE instance?

One instance of what? "Ticking off" is in reference to his national emergency declaration. I'm sure he will tick off even more as he actually begins taking money from Peter to pay Paul.

So, he's an equal opportunity ticker-offer?

What on earth does the presence of a plural have to do with "equal opportunity?"

[Cow Poke]

No. Are you being purposefully convoluted and dense?



What on earth does the presence of a plural have to do with "equal opportunity?"

CP - you're not making a great deal of sense.

I'll leave you to your tirade.

[carpedm9587]

I'll leave you to your tirade.

CP - are you smoking something this morning? You're not making a lot of sense. The original post is pretty simple:

Trump declared a national emergency.
That is ticking off some of his base
It is a bad precedent (which will become "precedents as he begins robbing different funds).

I have no idea why this is confusing to you - or why you seem to find my responses "obtuse."

I'll leave you to your confusion.


ETA: I do find is somewhat amusing that you get to toss out "dense" and "obtuse" but when I use the terms I'm having a "tirade." Pot - kettle - black - maybe?