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Christian Baker In Trouble Again!

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  • Christian Baker In Trouble Again!

    They just won't leave the man alone!

    DENVER — He won his six-year legal battle over his refusal to create a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, but Christian baker Jack Phillips is now facing what could be a lengthy courtroom sequel on the issue of a transgender birthday cake.

    Any hope of a speedy resolution was dashed Tuesday when a federal judge indicated he plans to reject the effort to dismiss the Colorado Civil Rights Commission’s latest complaint against Masterpiece Cakeshop involving a birthday cake for a gender transition.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-complaint-ov/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    They just won't leave the man alone!
    A silver lining

    Source: Nephew of Famed Baker Jack Phillips Became a Christian After Seeing His Uncle Defend the Faith


    The nephew of Christian baker Jack Phillips, the man embroiled in the famed and protracted “gay cake” legal battle has reportedly given his life to Jesus following his uncle’s ordeal.

    Back in June, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, Colorado, after he refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Previously, Phillips had been penalized by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission (CCRC) for his decision, but the highest court ruled that the commission violated Phillips’ rights under the First Amendment.

    In the aftermath of the landmark ruling, however, it appears that Phillips’ decision to take a stand for what he believes in had a lasting impact on some of his own family members. According to the legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, the baker’s nephew, Sean, watched on in horror as his uncle and extended family were subject to cruel and abusive treatment from those who disagreed with Phillips’ personal beliefs.

    However, far from scaring Sean or repelling him from the Lord, it actually compelled him to investigate the Christian faith for himself. One of the most fascinating elements of his Uncle Jack’s response to the slander and vitriol being sent his way was the fact that it didn’t appear to make him angry in return.

    According to ADF, Sean “dug into the Bible to understand the comfort that Jack had in Christ and how he could withstand such hardship with grace and peace. And eventually, God drew Sean to Himself.”

    Now, Sean is walking faithfully with Jesus.

    “He is living for God and not for himself,” ADF noted. “He is a changed man.”



    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      a silver lining

      Source: nephew of famed baker jack phillips became a christian after seeing his uncle defend the faith


      the nephew of christian baker jack phillips, the man embroiled in the famed and protracted “gay cake” legal battle has reportedly given his life to jesus following his uncle’s ordeal.

      Back in june, the supreme court ruled in favor of phillips, the owner of masterpiece cakeshop in lakewood, colorado, after he refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Previously, phillips had been penalized by the colorado civil rights commission (ccrc) for his decision, but the highest court ruled that the commission violated phillips’ rights under the first amendment.

      In the aftermath of the landmark ruling, however, it appears that phillips’ decision to take a stand for what he believes in had a lasting impact on some of his own family members. According to the legal group alliance defending freedom, the baker’s nephew, sean, watched on in horror as his uncle and extended family were subject to cruel and abusive treatment from those who disagreed with phillips’ personal beliefs.

      However, far from scaring sean or repelling him from the lord, it actually compelled him to investigate the christian faith for himself. One of the most fascinating elements of his uncle jack’s response to the slander and vitriol being sent his way was the fact that it didn’t appear to make him angry in return.

      According to adf, sean “dug into the bible to understand the comfort that jack had in christ and how he could withstand such hardship with grace and peace. And eventually, god drew sean to himself.”

      now, sean is walking faithfully with jesus.

      “he is living for god and not for himself,” adf noted. “he is a changed man.”



      source

      © Copyright Original Source

      amen!!!!!
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        reading that story he might have a harder time this time.

        If all the transgender person wanted was a pink and blue cake, I don't see how he can refuse to make it. It doesn't have any special significance on its own, just the symbolism to the person buying it. It didn't appear that they wanted any decoration or writing on it so it was not a piece of art but a plain cake. If the person ordering it didn't mention what it was for, he would never have known as far as I can tell. He also previously told the gay couple that he would gladly make them a cake for their birthday or other such celebration, just not a wedding cake.

        I agree that this is obviously a set up and bullying.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I agree that this is obviously a set up and bullying.
          True that...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            I think Phillips has a case against the Colorado Commission for intentional harassment though. It looks like they are out to get him and are ignoring the Supreme Courts decision about them showing religious hostility.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              A silver lining

              Source: Nephew of Famed Baker Jack Phillips Became a Christian After Seeing His Uncle Defend the Faith


              The nephew of Christian baker Jack Phillips, the man embroiled in the famed and protracted “gay cake” legal battle has reportedly given his life to Jesus following his uncle’s ordeal.

              Back in June, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, Colorado, after he refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Previously, Phillips had been penalized by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission (CCRC) for his decision, but the highest court ruled that the commission violated Phillips’ rights under the First Amendment.

              In the aftermath of the landmark ruling, however, it appears that Phillips’ decision to take a stand for what he believes in had a lasting impact on some of his own family members. According to the legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, the baker’s nephew, Sean, watched on in horror as his uncle and extended family were subject to cruel and abusive treatment from those who disagreed with Phillips’ personal beliefs.

              However, far from scaring Sean or repelling him from the Lord, it actually compelled him to investigate the Christian faith for himself. One of the most fascinating elements of his Uncle Jack’s response to the slander and vitriol being sent his way was the fact that it didn’t appear to make him angry in return.

              According to ADF, Sean “dug into the Bible to understand the comfort that Jack had in Christ and how he could withstand such hardship with grace and peace. And eventually, God drew Sean to Himself.”

              Now, Sean is walking faithfully with Jesus.

              “He is living for God and not for himself,” ADF noted. “He is a changed man.”



              Source

              © Copyright Original Source

              Genesis 50:20 English Standard Version (ESV)

              As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                reading that story he might have a harder time this time.

                If all the transgender person wanted was a pink and blue cake, I don't see how he can refuse to make it. It doesn't have any special significance on its own, just the symbolism to the person buying it. It didn't appear that they wanted any decoration or writing on it so it was not a piece of art but a plain cake. If the person ordering it didn't mention what it was for, he would never have known as far as I can tell. He also previously told the gay couple that he would gladly make them a cake for their birthday or other such celebration, just not a wedding cake.
                Given that one of the strongest arguments he had in regards to the original case was that he was discriminating based on the product itself, not who was buying it, it is harder to argue against this when it seems to be a much more "standardized" product and therefore the argument in question doesn't apply.

                On the other hand, there's an argument that can be used here that couldn't be used in the original case. Let's look at the law:

                It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation.

                "Sexual orientation" is listed there, but "gender identity" isn't. While some have argued that a prohibition of discriminating based on sex therefore includes discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and I know at least one circuit court ruled that's the case, the Supreme Court itself has never stated that. At any rate, a plausible argument that applies here but not in the original case is that that even if he was discriminating against the customer in this case, it wouldn't run afoul of the law. Though admittedly, an addition of "gender identity" by an adjustment to the law would render that argument moot for future cases.
                Last edited by Terraceth; 12-21-2018, 06:12 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                  Though admittedly, an addition of "gender identity" by an adjustment to the law would render that argument moot for future cases.
                  Legally, this sounds like a nightmare. The only evidence of a gender identity is the person's say-so, while all the other categories on that last are based on some real qualification.

                  Harassment may be a defense here... I had heard that this was only after repeated requests from this same person for various offensive cakes?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                    Given that one of the strongest arguments he had in regards to the original case was that he was discriminating based on the product itself, not who was buying it, it is harder to argue against this when it seems to be a much more "standardized" product and therefore the argument in question doesn't apply.

                    On the other hand, there's an argument that can be used here that couldn't be used in the original case. Let's look at the law:

                    It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation.

                    "Sexual orientation" is listed there, but "gender identity" isn't. While some have argued that a prohibition of discriminating based on sex therefore includes discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and I know at least one circuit court ruled that's the case, the Supreme Court itself has never stated that. At any rate, a plausible argument that applies here but not in the original case is that that even if he was discriminating against the customer in this case, it wouldn't run afoul of the law. Though admittedly, an addition of "gender identity" by an adjustment to the law would render that argument moot for future cases.
                    yeah and liberals are quick to argue that gender is not biological sex.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      They just won't leave the man alone!
                      *sigh*

                      I'd like to read about the case, but it's hard to find an online article from a source that is both unbiased and not hidden behind a paywall or a "We don't like adblockers" facade.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

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                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        They just won't leave the man alone!
                        There seems to be a need to find the line between behaviours necessitated by sincerely held but unfounded religious beliefs and straight forward bigotry. Some religioso try to hide their bigotry behind The Bible. They ought to be tested.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          There seems to be a need to find the line between behaviours necessitated by sincerely held but unfounded religious beliefs and straight forward bigotry. Some religioso try to hide their bigotry behind The Bible. They ought to be tested.
                          Well, that's exactly the heart of the problem, isn't it? Seems like many of the liberals on the other side of the gay cake argument don't actually think it's a sincere religious belief. Obviously, some don't care. But if there's no actual religious issue at stake, then the whole ordeal is much less interesting. It's very difficult to find a consensus on a litmus test for the sincerity of religious beliefs.
                          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by myth View Post
                            Well, that's exactly the heart of the problem, isn't it? Seems like many of the liberals on the other side of the gay cake argument don't actually think it's a sincere religious belief. Obviously, some don't care. But if there's no actual religious issue at stake, then the whole ordeal is much less interesting. It's very difficult to find a consensus on a litmus test for the sincerity of religious beliefs.
                            No, it actually is bigotry, this guy is simply anti gay people. Or does he only make christian wedding cakes? His religion doesn't believe in Muslimism either, or Hinduism, or whatever ism, but I'll bet you that he doesn't refuse to make wedding cakes for them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              No, it actually is bigotry, this guy is simply anti gay people. Or does he only make christian wedding cakes? His religion doesn't believe in Muslimism either, or Hinduism, or whatever ism, but I'll bet you that he doesn't refuse to make wedding cakes for them.
                              What you consider bigotry Jim is quite honestly meaningless. But he also refuses to bake cakes for Halloween or anti-American celebrations. Does that mean he is a Halloween bigot?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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