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Christian Baker In Trouble Again!

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  • #16
    Where is Charles and his nanny "whataboutism" when we need him, to set Jim straight.........



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      No, it actually is bigotry, this guy is simply anti gay people. Or does he only make christian wedding cakes? His religion doesn't believe in Muslimism either, or Hinduism, or whatever ism, but I'll bet you that he doesn't refuse to make wedding cakes for them.
      Right. So, have you spoken with the man at length about his religious beliefs? Have you read a long and exhaustive explanation of his personal religious beliefs in order to enable you evaluate the sincerity those beliefs? Have you personally uncovered evidence of actual bigotry, which you can definitely separate from his claimed religious beliefs? Because if the answer to all those questions is 'no', then you know not of what you speak.
      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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      • #18
        Originally posted by myth View Post
        Right. So, have you spoken with the man at length about his religious beliefs? Have you read a long and exhaustive explanation of his personal religious beliefs in order to enable you evaluate the sincerity those beliefs? Have you personally uncovered evidence of actual bigotry, which you can definitely separate from his claimed religious beliefs? Because if the answer to all those questions is 'no', then you know not of what you speak.
        Does he refuse to make wedding cakes for people of differing religions which he as a christian disagrees with. No? Then his refusal to do the same for gay couples is simply bigotry.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Does he refuse to make wedding cakes for people of differing religions which he as a christian disagrees with. No? Then his refusal to do the same for gay couples is simply bigotry.
          It's disappointing, but telling, that you make such simplistic assumptions. Confirmation bias is real thing, dude.
          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Does he refuse to make wedding cakes for people of differing religions which he as a christian disagrees with. No? Then his refusal to do the same for gay couples is simply bigotry.
            How do you know what he refuses or not? Maybe he doesn't see a Muslim marriage as inherently immoral since it includes a man and a woman. But again if he refuses to make a cake for Halloween celebrations does that make him a bigot?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              How do you know what he refuses or not? Maybe he doesn't see a Muslim marriage as inherently immoral since it includes a man and a woman. But again if he refuses to make a cake for Halloween celebrations does that make him a bigot?
              He obviously doesn't believe in the Muslim religion any more than he believes in homosexuality. He says his reason for discriminating is due to his religious beliefs, therefore he should be discriminating against all non-christian marriages, but he doesn't, he only discriminates against gays getting married. He's a bigot. Not that it matters, because according to law, the baker can not discriminate against a people because of who they are.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Does he refuse to make wedding cakes for people of differing religions which he as a christian disagrees with. No? Then his refusal to do the same for gay couples is simply bigotry.
                Fake Analogy.

                It would only be equivalent if there were something about the wedding ceremony itself that ran contrary to his Christian beliefs.

                In the case of the gay wedding, it was not the fact that the couple comprised gay persons, it was that the wedding inherently celebrated their practice of their gayness.

                In the case of the gender-switcher, it is specifically the fact that the "birthday" cake is intended to celebrate gender-switching. If the bullying, harassing weirdo had just said, "It's for a birthday celebration," there would not have been an issue. But since BHW told the baker the purpose of the celebration, with full knowledge and intent of provoking the conflict, the issue became unavoidable.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  He obviously doesn't believe in the Muslim religion any more than he believes in homosexuality. He says his reason for discriminating is due to his religious beliefs, therefore he should be discriminating against all non-christian marriages, but he doesn't, he only discriminates against gays getting married. He's a bigot. Not that it matters, because according to law, the baker can not discriminate against a people because of who they are.
                  He's not. He's discriminating on the basis of what they are choosing to celebrate.

                  But of course as a willfully blind infidel, you either do not see that, or see it but dishonestly claim not to.
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Federalist.

                  Nationalist Christian.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                  Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                  Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                  Justice for Matthew Perna!

                  Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                    He's not. He's discriminating on the basis of what they are choosing to celebrate.

                    But of course as a willfully blind infidel, you either do not see that, or see it but dishonestly claim not to.
                    The muslim couple are celebrating their marriage together as muslims, but you and the baker don't believe in muslimism any more than you believe in homosexualism, so the baker should be discriminating against the muslim wedding the same as he does the gay wedding, but he doesn't. So it isn't about his religious beliefs per se, it's about his personal bigotry against gay people, But again, none of that matters, it's simply against the law to discriminate against a people simply because they are who they are.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      Fake Analogy.

                      It would only be equivalent if there were something about the wedding ceremony itself that ran contrary to his Christian beliefs.
                      Not so long ago many Christians regarded interracial marriage as running contrary to their Christian beliefs. Some still do. Such persons are not entitled in law to refuse providing a a cake for them or any other law abiding citizens...including homosexuals.

                      In the case of the gay wedding, it was not the fact that the couple comprised gay persons, it was that the wedding inherently celebrated their practice of their gayness.
                      No, it was not to celebrate the "practice of their gayness", it was to celebrate their wedding...this is what wedding cakes are for.

                      In the case of the gender-switcher, it is specifically the fact that the "birthday" cake is intended to celebrate gender-switching. If the bullying, harassing weirdo had just said, "It's for a birthday celebration," there would not have been an issue.
                      “Bullying, harassing weirdo"...really?

                      So you are encouraging lying so as to spare the feelings of the homophobic baker?

                      But since BHW told the baker the purpose of the celebration, with full knowledge and intent of provoking the conflict, the issue became unavoidable.
                      No. What "provoked the conflict" was the bakers bigotry. If he wasn't bigoted, he would not have been provoked.
                      Last edited by Tassman; 12-27-2018, 11:43 PM.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        He obviously doesn't believe in the Muslim religion any more than he believes in homosexuality. He says his reason for discriminating is due to his religious beliefs, therefore he should be discriminating against all non-christian marriages, but he doesn't, he only discriminates against gays getting married. He's a bigot. Not that it matters, because according to law, the baker can not discriminate against a people because of who they are.
                        Jim, the Biblical model for marriage is between a man and a woman. A Muslim or Jew could meet that definition. Or even a secular marriage. A homosexual couple could not, ever. And I will ask again, he also refuses to bake for other celebrations, like Halloween - does that make him a bigot too? Of course if we did not have these inane, freedom hating laws we wouldn't have to have theses ridiculous discussions.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Jim, the Biblical model for marriage is between a man and a woman. A Muslim or Jew could meet that definition. Or even a secular marriage. A homosexual couple could not, ever. And I will ask again, he also refuses to bake for other celebrations, like Halloween - does that make him a bigot too? Of course if we did not have these inane, freedom hating laws we wouldn't have to have theses ridiculous discussions.
                          No, the biblical model is for a marriage between a christian man and a christian woman. It has even been argued here that marriage is a christian term not to be defind by others. As for Halloween, Halloween is not a person seer. But again, that is all irrelevant, we have laws preventing the discrimination against people because of who they are which is why black people are now free to attend good schools, have decent jobs, and shop and dine as freely as you and I. Now unfortunately we have to fight conservative haters, bigots and ignorance once again for those same rights to be available to homosexual people.

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                          • #28
                            So did this baker sell transgender-themed cakes to non-transgender people? Is that a service he even claimed to offer? Baking transgender-themed cakes?
                            "Some people feel guilty about their anxieties and regard them as a defect of faith but they are afflictions, not sins. Like all afflictions, they are, if we can so take them, our share in the passion of Christ." - That Guy Everyone Quotes

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Does he refuse to make wedding cakes for people of differing religions which he as a christian disagrees with. No? Then his refusal to do the same for gay couples is simply bigotry.
                              Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. He has his interpretation of Christian morality and his theology as well as his own conscience. Do you have a handbook of Christian ethical cake-baking practices that he's bound to obey and being inconsistent with?
                              Last edited by hamster; 12-28-2018, 09:08 AM.
                              "Some people feel guilty about their anxieties and regard them as a defect of faith but they are afflictions, not sins. Like all afflictions, they are, if we can so take them, our share in the passion of Christ." - That Guy Everyone Quotes

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                No, the biblical model is for a marriage between a christian man and a christian woman. It has even been argued here that marriage is a christian term not to be defind by others.
                                Well Old Testament Jews were not Christian. Second, I don't see in Scripture where a marriage between a man and a woman of different faiths is necessarily immoral, though under certain conditions it could be. A man and a man marrying could not, even in principle, be moral.


                                As for Halloween, Halloween is not a person seer. But again, that is all irrelevant, we have laws preventing the discrimination against people because of who they are which is why black people are now free to attend good schools, have decent jobs, and shop and dine as freely as you and I. Now unfortunately we have to fight conservative haters, bigots and ignorance once again for those same rights to be available to homosexual people.
                                But he is discriminating against the person who wants to celebrated Halloween, I believe one was a Wiccan. And governments should not discriminate, but this is about forcing, by law, one man man to serve another. And that to be will always be a form of slavery, and evil.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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