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Trump's Christian supporters are unchristian

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Logically, you can't. Think about it.
    Then god can't be looking at, and therefore know, your future actions prior to your even existing. Think about it.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Why do you suppose that God knowing what my choice is means it is predestined? You are thinking about time linearly. If God always is then all moments are in the present for Him. The concept of prediction doesnt apply in that case, it's an accomodation to how we percieve time.

      Jim
      Jim, if all of time exists and can be seen and known by an external observer, then all of time exists, period. The future can't be both opened and closed at the same time. Do you not see the logical contradiction in that claim?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
        Then god can't be looking at, and therefore know, your future actions prior to your even existing. Think about it.
        Right. God can't know your freewill decisions before you've made them.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Right. God can't know your freewill decisions before you've made them.
          So, you mean to say that god is not eternally omniscient.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Logically, you can't. Think about it.
            And yet the eternally omniscient deity has always know what I will decide from even before I was born. Think about it.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
              So, you mean to say that god is not eternally omniscient.
              Nope. You're trying to place human temporal constraints on a timeless being.

              By the way, I'm still waiting for your simple logical argument to prove your assertions. Did you forget about that?
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                And yet the eternally omniscient deity has always know what I will decide from even before I was born. Think about it.
                Yes. Now prove that this necessarily means we don't have freewill.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Nope. You're trying to place human temporal constraints on a timeless being.

                  By the way, I'm still waiting for your simple logical argument to prove your assertions. Did you forget about that?
                  MM, sorry to say, but you are apparntly to simple of mind to grasp the simple logical argument of contradiction. We've been explaining it to you for years now in every possible wording we can think of in order to get through to you, but alas, it's no use. It's just the way your brain works, it's why you are so easily taken in by propaganda. Once you believe a thing, you refuse to acknowledge any fact that might contradict that belief. Sad!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                    MM, sorry to say, but you are apparntly to simple of mind to grasp the simple logical argument of contradiction. We've been explaining it to you for years now in every possible wording we can think of in order to get through to you, but alas, it's no use.
                    Bald assertions are not arguments.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Nope. You're trying to place human temporal constraints on a timeless being.
                      So all you have to do is show how the "temporal constraints" of humans can override the fact that your omniscient "timeless being" has always known in advance what your choices will be. You can choose no other, unless your omniscient deity is not omniscient after all.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                        So all you have to do...
                        Not how this works, kiddo. It's your argument and therefore your burden of proof.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          So all you have to do is show how the "temporal constraints" of humans can override the fact that your omniscient "timeless being" has always known in advance what your choices will be. You can choose no other, unless your omniscient deity is not omniscient after all.
                          Tassman, can you define the difference between what I can do and what I am willing to do?
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Tassman, can you define the difference between what I can do and what I am willing to do?
                            I can. If the future is open you are free to do as you please, if the future is closed, then your will has nothing to do with it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              I can. If the future is open you are free to do as you please, if the future is closed, then your will has nothing to do with it.
                              Tassman, I will continue to wait on your reply to the post JimL has replied to, even if you consider JimL's response to match what yours would be.


                              Jim
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Tassman, can you define the difference between what I can do and what I am willing to do?
                                There is no effective difference between what you “can do” and what you are “willing to do” in a universe where what you will actually do has been known for all eternity by an omniscient deity.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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