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Trump's Christian supporters are unchristian

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  • Trump's Christian supporters are unchristian

    I just read a very interesting article that puts some very good and exact words on how I have experienced Christians, or should I say so called Christians, behave on tweb. The main point, which is one with which I agree is, that many (but definitely not all) white evangelical Christians have lost grip on morality and given up their social responsibility. I think their continued support for Trump even after his very worst deeds makes this rather obvious.

    Thinking about the hand waving or even the support and the attempt to justify Trump I have seen on tweb is summed up very well in the following statement:

    The problem isn’t that they're imposing their morality on others. The problem is that what they’re imposing isn’t morality. It’s wickedness.
    Here is another interesting take on a convenient “change of mind” (WEP is short for white evangelical Protestants)

    To accommodate Trump, white evangelicals have retreated from moral judgment of him. In 2011, a PRRI survey asked whether “an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties in their public and professional life.” At that point, two years into Barack Obama’s presidency, only 30 percent of WEPs said yes. But in October 2016, after the release of Trump’s infamous Access Hollywood tape, 72 percent of WEPs said yes.
    And with regard to social responsibility:

    The BGC poll asked respondents to choose, from a list of 12 issues and traits, which was most important in determining how they voted in 2016. Among black and Hispanic evangelicals, a candidate’s “ability to help those in need” was the second or third most commonly named factor. Among white evangelicals, it ranked almost dead last.
    On racism there is also an interesting thing to note, namely:

    In the BGC survey, 59 percent of non-evangelical whites agreed with the statement, “I am disturbed by comments President Trump has made about minorities.” But a plurality of white evangelicals disagreed with it.
    And on the family separations there are also interesting observations:

    Trump has already proved, by breaking up immigrant families explicitly to frighten other families, that more than a third of WEPs will stand with him, and others will stay neutral, as he attacks basic values.
    He concludes, and I would agree, that what we are seeing is simply a betrayal of basic Christian values. I like the words he puts on it and thought you might find it an inspiring and challenging read.
    Last edited by Charles; 12-23-2018, 12:59 PM.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

  • #2
    Yes because listening to anti Christian bigots, that hate me are the best people to get advice from. So Charles, do you care to answer my post you ran away from yet?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #3
      smiley yawn.gif

      Gotta love it when non-Christians tell Christians how they're supposed to act.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        I can't help but notice that so far the comments are about who wrote it and not about the content. Not that I am surprised. The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it seems to have an audience on tweb.
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Charles View Post
          I can't help but notice that so far the comments are about who wrote it and not about the content. Not that I am surprised. The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it seems to have an audience on tweb.
          The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it is a sound idea when the validity of the statement is dependent on the authority of the person to make that statement in the first place.

          Or to make it more explicit: Deciding which people, or what behavior, is unchristian is none of your business, especially if you're not part of the Church. It's hardly even your business as an individual member of the Church.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think what really happened is that Christian conservatives finally got fed up with getting suckered by the establishment into selecting morally "acceptable" candidates who were easy for Democrats to beat and decided to go with the guy who actually had a real chance of winning. The establishment desperately wanted us to nominate Jeb or Kasich, and Hillary would have easily demolished them on the campaign trail, and they would have happily conceded on election night with a hearty congratulations to Hillary and a "Can't we all just get along?" speech.

            No thank you.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              I can't help but notice that so far the comments are about who wrote it and not about the content. Not that I am surprised. The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it seems to have an audience on tweb.
              I can't help but notice that, while both sides of the divide have a strong penchant for doing this, the poster named Charles only EVER calls out one side.

              If the poster named Charles can point out a single prior instance of him calling out the liberal side, I'll retract my statement.

              Patiently waiting.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it is a sound idea when the validity of the statement is dependent on the authority of the person to make that statement in the first place.
                Since we can all read the Bible and understand the message it is not too difficult too difficult to see the hypocrazy even for those of us who are not believers. I see quite many Christians who are not that reluctant to tell me what Islam is all about and while I disagree with quite many of them, I never make the claim that they have got no idea about it since they are not Muslims.

                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                Or to make it more explicit: Deciding which people, or what behavior, is unchristian is none of your business, especially if you're not part of the Church. It's hardly even your business as an individual member of the Church.
                Deciding what is or is not my business is none of your business, if you are to take your own medicine. Feel free to feel that you belong in a certain business or club excluded from having others having opinions about it, but I feel absolutely no need to comply.

                And by the way you did not respond to any of the points in the text. That makes you the third.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  I can't help but notice that, while both sides of the divide have a strong penchant for doing this, the poster named Charles only EVER calls out one side.

                  If the poster named Charles can point out a single prior instance of him calling out the liberal side, I'll retract my statement.

                  Patiently waiting.
                  You don't notice the irony of this ???

                  This is just another relativism-post along the lines of: If Charles cannot show he did this or that, we have no reason to take his statement seriously (whether it is actually right or wrong does not matter).

                  Make it easy for yourself, OBP, confront the actual point.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it is a sound idea when the validity of the statement is dependent on the authority of the person to make that statement in the first place.

                    Or to make it more explicit: Deciding which people, or what behavior, is unchristian is none of your business, especially if you're not part of the Church. It's hardly even your business as an individual member of the Church.
                    The Bible has quite a lot to say about not judging others, which is not the same as calling out sin. It's more along the lines of the OP's "You're not a 'real' Christian if you don't do X" sentiments.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      Since we can all read the Bible and understand the message it is not too difficult too difficult to see the hypocrazy even for those of us who are not believers. I see quite many Christians who are not that reluctant to tell me what Islam is all about and while I disagree with quite many of them, I never make the claim that they have got no idea about it since they are not Muslims.

                      Deciding what is or is not my business is none of your business, if you are to take your own medicine. Feel free to feel that you belong in a certain business or club excluded from having others having opinions about it, but I feel absolutely no need to comply.
                      I never said you're not free to have opinions about whether or not some Christian's behaviour is unchristian or not, I said your opinion doesn't hold any weight.

                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      And by the way you did not respond to any of the points in the text. That makes you the third.
                      The points are immaterial.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                        Since we can all read the Bible and understand the message it is not too difficult too difficult to see the hypocrazy even for those of us who are not believers.
                        Then let's see some scripture and its proper application in support of your claims instead of the self-righteous opinions of a liberal pundit.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          The Bible has quite a lot to say about not judging others, which is not the same as calling out sin. It's more along the lines of the OP's "You're not a 'real' Christian if you don't do X" sentiments.
                          The opening post is rather about the fact that people act contrary to what they claim to believe. I am sure you could think of examples of people claiming to be muslim where you would say they were not (if they eat swine all the time, drink a lot of wine or are actually doing porn as a women who claims to be a muslim is actually doing).

                          But feel free to find your way around the points being made. You are in good company in doing so.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                            The opening post is rather about the fact that people act contrary to what they claim to believe.
                            Or, Christians finally wised up to the con job that we should only support morally "perfect" candidates while Democrats are willing to do whatever it takes to win.

                            Oh, and feel free to use scripture to support your contention that Trump supporters are "unchristian".
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Charles View Post
                              I can't help but notice that so far the comments are about who wrote it and not about the content. Not that I am surprised. The idea that the content of a statement is relative to who says it seems to have an audience on tweb.
                              I answered the content, I don’t care what a bunch of anti Christian bigots, that hate me, think about me or my views. Do you understand that?
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment

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