Trump lies to troops.

[Mountain Man]

The truth is...

...that you're so blinded by Trump Derangement Syndrome that you're studiously unwilling to take Trump's words in anything but the most negative light, even if you have to blatantly ignore certain plain truths that put his statements into context.

[carpedm9587]

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...t-add-n2538155

Yes - with the cuts in military funding in Obama's second term, pay raises for the past six years were less than usual - though not dramatically different from cost of living. We were, after all, coming out of a pretty serious recession. Everyone was pinching. Many pay raises BEFORE that time, however, were larger than the pay raises coming in 2018 and 2019, so this data is cherry-picked to emphasize the lowest numbers. To whit: 3.4% in 2010, 3.9% in 2009, 3.5% in 2008, and 4.6% in 2004. Indeed if we do a bit of analysis, we find that from 2004 through 2018, the average COL increase has been 2.12% and the average military pay hike has been 2.53%. Not too shabby. And let's look at salary increases next to COL for the years identified in this cherry-picked article.

• 2011 - Military increase = 1.4%; COL increase = 3.6% (looks bad, until you realize that the pay increases for 2009 was 3.9% and for 2010 was 3.4% and the COL increases in both years was 0%)
• 2012 - Military increase = 1.6%; COL increase = 1.7%
• 2013 - Military increase = 1.7%; COL increase = 1.5%
• 2014 - Military increase = 1%; COL increase = 1.7%
• 2015 - Military increase = 1%; COL increase = 0%
• 2016 - Military increase = 1.3%; COL increase = 0.3%

So we have a pretty close link between COL increases and military pay hikes, which is as it should be. Merit increases are not done wholesale - they are done individually. That is why they are considered "merit."

And this "can't do the math" is another example of making every effort to justify outright falsehoods or misleading statements. When I am told "I got you a 10% pay raise," I usually expect to see that pay raise in my next pay check. I know of no instance when anyone has ever said "You're getting a 10% pay raise - it'll just take four years for you to get the whole thing."

That anyone would even attempt such a lame explanation of Trump's misstatements is just amazing to me. It seems to me it would be a lot simpler, and more honest, to say, "yeah - he flapped away at the gums again, engaged in hyperbole, and said things that just aren't true - again."

BTW - data is data - it's not "TDS"

[lilpixieofterror]

And this "can't do the math" is another example of making every effort to justify outright falsehoods or misleading statements. When I am told "I got you a 10% pay raise," I usually expect to see that pay raise in my next pay check. I know of no instance when anyone has ever said "You're getting a 10% pay raise - it'll just take four years for you to get the whole thing."

[Tassman]

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...t-add-n2538155

Just the usual far right media spin to explain what the president really meant by his grandiose, misleading lies. Surely even you are used to this by now.

[carpedm9587]

We're not talking about "spending increases," Pix. We're talking about the language of pay raises. I have never worked for the government, but I have family and friends who have. I showed several of them your post and they pretty much said what I said - a pay raise is a pay raise...it doesn't come in multi-year increments. Nobody that I know of talks about it in those terms.

This is a stretch to provide another rationalization for Trump's hyperbole and lies.

[Charles]

That anyone would even attempt such a lame explanation of Trump's misstatements is just amazing to me. It seems to me it would be a lot simpler, and more honest, to say, "yeah - he flapped away at the gums again, engaged in hyperbole, and said things that just aren't true - again."

The disregard for truth is at the heart of the administration. The lying president is supported by "alternative facts" and the idea that "truth isn't truth".

And let's be honest, there is a lot that they need to cover up:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinio...mn/2376588002/

[lilpixieofterror]

We're not talking about "spending increases," Pix. We're talking about the language of pay raises. I have never worked for the government, but I have family and friends who have. I showed several of them your post and they pretty much said what I said - a pay raise is a pay raise...it doesn't come in multi-year increments. Nobody that I know of talks about it in those terms.

This is a stretch to provide another rationalization for Trump's hyperbole and lies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121834&page=1

I await your calls of calling Bush 2 a liar.

[JimL]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121834&page=1

I await your calls of calling Bush 2 a liar.

Hey dumbell, the automatic increase in military pay, an increase that occurs every year, in conjunction with the COL., and has done so for the past thirty years, was to be 2.4% this year, the president tried to lower that to 2.1%. Congress overode the president and kept the increase at 2.4%. What else do you need to know ya big goof?

[carpedm9587]

Other presidents and congressmen have talked in similar language when talking about pay increases too. Curious that the media seems to forget that and you mindlessly repeat it because it tells you what you want to hear.

I actually don't base my responses on "what I read in the media." Rather, I look at the posts here, then I research the data as best I can and see how it holds up. I have not seen any articles about the pay dispute other than the ones linked here.

I've responded to this already, as I'm sure you know. I have not served in the military OR in government. I simply have done my homework. The implication that someone who has not worked in the military and government cannot make meaningful statements about either and must bow to the words of someone who has is simply not a sustainable argument. If that were true, then priests could not counsel couples, psychologists could not counsel anyone with a condition they did not have, and the list goes on. This is a dubious argument at best. And, as I have noted, I have been sharing these responses with family and friends who DO serve in the military - many of who are Republicans and a few of whom are Trump supporters. So far, they affirm to correctness of my research and comments. I know them - and I do not know you, how honest you are, and how able you are to set aside political bias to look objectively at the facts, so their feedback is more compelling (to me) than yours.

BTW I found this within 10 seconds of searching:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121834&page=1

I await your calls of calling Bush 2 a liar.

I don't need to. This article, as far as I can tell, does nothing to support your argument. There are about 1.4M people in active service in the military today, and that number has been reasonably stable since 2000. $1.4B dedicated to pay raises averages to approximately $1,000 per person. In 2001, the pay raise was 3.7%. So the $1.4B was not even the entirety of money needed for that year's pay raises. Bush was not projecting forward into multiple years - but was talking about 2001 pay raises, as best I can tell from the data.

[MankyScotsGit]

I'm wondering if there are any atheists on tWeb who actively support Trump (by actively I mean they didn't just vote for him because he wasn't Hilary)? From what I've observed in the little while I've been back, it seems to be [only?] Conservative Christians who actively support him. Supporting the guy because he's not Hilary, I can understand, but Christians actually in agreement with what he says and does.. and actively supporting and defending his deeds? Maybe I should split this off to Apologetics, but I dunno how.

[Terraceth]

Not sure about Tweb, but I know atheists on other forums that are more pro-Trump than anyone here (except maybe Mountain Man).

[EvoUK]

Pretty sure most of the cretins in the darkest depths of boards like 4chan and the like are Trumpsters...

[Charles]

Not sure about Tweb, but I know atheists on other forums that are more pro-Trump than anyone here (except maybe Mountain Man).

I do not know if it is true or not but I did read a story about a Christian Trump supporter who ripped the sermont on the mount out of the Bible because he found it contradicted Trump.

I find it more significant that many Christians who would never delete a single word from their Bible still support acting contrary to how it says we should treat the stranger, the weak, the hungry etc. They take part in dehumanizing bearers of the image of God.

[carpedm9587]

I'm wondering if there are any atheists on tWeb who actively support Trump (by actively I mean they didn't just vote for him because he wasn't Hilary)? From what I've observed in the little while I've been back, it seems to be [only?] Conservative Christians who actively support him. Supporting the guy because he's not Hilary, I can understand, but Christians actually in agreement with what he says and does.. and actively supporting and defending his deeds? Maybe I should split this off to Apologetics, but I dunno how.

I suspect most atheists lean left or are hard left - so I doubt you will find too many who support Trump or his policies.

[Cow Poke]

I do not know if it is true or not but I did read a story about a Christian Trump supporter who ripped the sermont on the mount out of the Bible because he found it contradicted Trump.

Wow, such a powerful and convincing indictment of Christians everywhere!