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Prophecy - The Egyptian nation will not rise again to rule

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  • Prophecy - The Egyptian nation will not rise again to rule

    "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom. It will be the lowest of the kingdoms, and it will never again lift itself up above the nations. And I will make them so small that they will not rule over the nations. And it will never again be the confidence of the house of Israel, bringing to mind the iniquity of their having turned to Egypt. Then they will know that I am the Lord God.” (Ezekiel 29:14–16)

    And this has been fulfilled, the Egyptian nation has not risen again to rule over the nations, nor have they again been the confidence of the Israelites.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    Prophesy? yes and no. Pretty much all the kingdoms of history no longer rule other nations. They have become nations themselves,
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom. It will be the lowest of the kingdoms, and it will never again lift itself up above the nations. And I will make them so small that they will not rule over the nations. And it will never again be the confidence of the house of Israel, bringing to mind the iniquity of their having turned to Egypt. Then they will know that I am the Lord God.” (Ezekiel 29:14–16)

      And this has been fulfilled, the Egyptian nation has not risen again to rule over the nations, nor have they again been the confidence of the Israelites.
      Really, and did the fortunes of Egypt return to the land of Pathros? And are they the lowest of nations? And btw, Israel is probably as close to Egypt as they are to any middle eastern country. Hardly prophetic, lee.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Prophesy? yes and no. Pretty much all the kingdoms of history no longer rule other nations. They have become nations themselves,
        Shall I speak of Germany, of Japan in recent memory? V-J day was in 1945, and communism still has as its stated agenda to conquer the world.

        Blessings,
        Lee
        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Really, and did the fortunes of Egypt return to the land of Pathros? And are they the lowest of nations? And btw, Israel is probably as close to Egypt as they are to any middle eastern country. Hardly prophetic, lee.
          The Egyptians did return to Pathros, which is upper Egypt, and the Egyptians have been a lowly kingdom, but this part need not continue forever. The part that will continue forever is that they will never rule other nations, and never again be the confidence of Israel, though the Egyptian dynasties lasted for thousands of years.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom. It will be the lowest of the kingdoms, and it will never again lift itself up above the nations. And I will make them so small that they will not rule over the nations. And it will never again be the confidence of the house of Israel, bringing to mind the iniquity of their having turned to Egypt. Then they will know that I am the Lord God.” (Ezekiel 29:14–16)

            And this has been fulfilled, the Egyptian nation has not risen again to rule over the nations, nor have they again been the confidence of the Israelites.
            The Egyptians did return to Pathros, which is upper Egypt, and the Egyptians have been a lowly kingdom, but this part need not continue forever. The part that will continue forever is that they will never rule other nations, and never again be the confidence of Israel, though the Egyptian dynasties lasted for thousands of years.
            In actual history, Egypt under the leadership of Muhammed Ali conquered the Sudan, Syria (including the area that is modern-day Israel) and part of Libya.

            But no doubt Lee has some flimsy excuse why this wouldn't count as not being a lowly kingdom, not ruling other nations, and remaining in Pathros.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              In actual history, Egypt under the leadership of Muhammed Ali conquered the Sudan, Syria (including the area that is modern-day Israel) and part of Libya.
              Was that during the "Rumble in the Jungle"?




              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                In actual history, Egypt under the leadership of Muhammed Ali conquered the Sudan, Syria (including the area that is modern-day Israel) and part of Libya.

                But no doubt Lee has some flimsy excuse why this wouldn't count as not being a lowly kingdom, not ruling other nations, and remaining in Pathros.
                I can't speak for Lee, but I would argue that thanks to all the various upheavals and conquests in the interim (particularly the Arab conquest), what we now think of as Egypt is basically a different nation entirely from the Egypt of Ezekiel's time, much like how Mexico is a different country than the Aztec Empire. Heck, Muhammed Ali wasn't even Egyptian; he was Albanian.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                  I can't speak for Lee, but I would argue that thanks to all the various upheavals and conquests in the interim (particularly the Arab conquest), what we now think of as Egypt is basically a different nation entirely from the Egypt of Ezekiel's time, much like how Mexico is a different country than the Aztec Empire. Heck, Muhammed Ali wasn't even Egyptian; he was Albanian.
                  What you are describing is the natural course of civilization, and not the fulfillment of prophecy.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    In actual history, Egypt under the leadership of Muhammed Ali conquered the Sudan, Syria (including the area that is modern-day Israel) and part of Libya.
                    I am aware of the Ottoman empire, and that was what Muhammed Ali was part of, this was not Egypt ruling other nations. As here:

                    Source: Encyclopedia Britannica

                    In 1841 he and his family were granted the hereditary right to rule Egypt and the Sudan, but his power was still subjected to restraints, and the sultan’s suzerain rights remained intact.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      I am aware of the Ottoman empire, and that was what Muhammed Ali was part of, this was not Egypt ruling other nations. As here:

                      Source: Encyclopedia Britannica

                      In 1841 he and his family were granted the hereditary right to rule Egypt and the Sudan, but his power was still subjected to restraints, and the sultan’s suzerain rights remained intact.

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      Ali may have been initially part of the Ottoman empire, but he didn't remain so. From your own source (which you apparently didn't read):
                      Muḥammad ʿAlī felt that he was strong enough to challenge the sultan. His first war against the sultan (1831–33) gained him control of Syria as far north as Adana. In the second war (1838–41) the decisive defeat of Ottoman troops at the Battle of Nizip (1839) and the desertion of the Ottoman fleet to Muḥammad ʿAlī led to intervention by the European powers. In July 1840, Great Britain, Russia, Austria, and Prussia agreed to end Egyptian rule in Syria, shattering Muḥammad ʿAlī’s hopes for greater independence from the Ottoman Empire.


                      Egypt conquered Syria (including what is now Israel) fighting against the Ottoman empire, not as part of it. You have quoted the part of your source that describes what happened after the invasion as if it were how Ali came to rule Egypt before the invasion.

                      As usual, your claims can be refuted using your own references.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                        I can't speak for Lee, but I would argue that thanks to all the various upheavals and conquests in the interim (particularly the Arab conquest), what we now think of as Egypt is basically a different nation entirely from the Egypt of Ezekiel's time, much like how Mexico is a different country than the Aztec Empire.
                        I would too, but since Lee is also arguing that Egypt has persisted, that isn't an (honest) option for him.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Ali may have been initially part of the Ottoman empire, but he didn't remain so. From your own source (which you apparently didn't read):
                          Muḥammad ʿAlī felt that he was strong enough to challenge the sultan. His first war against the sultan (1831–33) gained him control of Syria as far north as Adana. In the second war (1838–41) the decisive defeat of Ottoman troops at the Battle of Nizip (1839) and the desertion of the Ottoman fleet to Muḥammad ʿAlī led to intervention by the European powers. In July 1840, Great Britain, Russia, Austria, and Prussia agreed to end Egyptian rule in Syria, shattering Muḥammad ʿAlī’s hopes for greater independence from the Ottoman Empire.


                          Egypt conquered Syria (including what is now Israel) fighting against the Ottoman empire, not as part of it.
                          Yes, but he never did get out from under the sultan, note the part emphasized above.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            And this has been fulfilled
                            Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                              Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?
                              Israel will rule other nations:

                              "Your gates will be open continually;
                              They will not be closed day or night,
                              So that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations,
                              With their kings led in procession.
                              For the nation and the kingdom which will not serve you will perish,
                              And the nations will be utterly ruined." (Isaiah 60:11-12)

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment

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