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Thread: Prophecy - The Egyptian nation will not rise again to rule

  1. #11
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I am aware of the Ottoman empire, and that was what Muhammed Ali was part of, this was not Egypt ruling other nations. As here:

    Source: Encyclopedia Britannica

    In 1841 he and his family were granted the hereditary right to rule Egypt and the Sudan, but his power was still subjected to restraints, and the sultan’s suzerain rights remained intact.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Ali may have been initially part of the Ottoman empire, but he didn't remain so. From your own source (which you apparently didn't read):
    Muḥammad ʿAlī felt that he was strong enough to challenge the sultan. His first war against the sultan (1831–33) gained him control of Syria as far north as Adana. In the second war (1838–41) the decisive defeat of Ottoman troops at the Battle of Nizip (1839) and the desertion of the Ottoman fleet to Muḥammad ʿAlī led to intervention by the European powers. In July 1840, Great Britain, Russia, Austria, and Prussia agreed to end Egyptian rule in Syria, shattering Muḥammad ʿAlī’s hopes for greater independence from the Ottoman Empire.


    Egypt conquered Syria (including what is now Israel) fighting against the Ottoman empire, not as part of it. You have quoted the part of your source that describes what happened after the invasion as if it were how Ali came to rule Egypt before the invasion.

    As usual, your claims can be refuted using your own references.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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  2. #12
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    I can't speak for Lee, but I would argue that thanks to all the various upheavals and conquests in the interim (particularly the Arab conquest), what we now think of as Egypt is basically a different nation entirely from the Egypt of Ezekiel's time, much like how Mexico is a different country than the Aztec Empire.
    I would too, but since Lee is also arguing that Egypt has persisted, that isn't an (honest) option for him.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

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  3. #13
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Ali may have been initially part of the Ottoman empire, but he didn't remain so. From your own source (which you apparently didn't read):
    Muḥammad ʿAlī felt that he was strong enough to challenge the sultan. His first war against the sultan (1831–33) gained him control of Syria as far north as Adana. In the second war (1838–41) the decisive defeat of Ottoman troops at the Battle of Nizip (1839) and the desertion of the Ottoman fleet to Muḥammad ʿAlī led to intervention by the European powers. In July 1840, Great Britain, Russia, Austria, and Prussia agreed to end Egyptian rule in Syria, shattering Muḥammad ʿAlī’s hopes for greater independence from the Ottoman Empire.


    Egypt conquered Syria (including what is now Israel) fighting against the Ottoman empire, not as part of it.
    Yes, but he never did get out from under the sultan, note the part emphasized above.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  4. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    And this has been fulfilled
    Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?

  5. #15
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Shaver View Post
    Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?
    Israel will rule other nations:

    "Your gates will be open continually;
    They will not be closed day or night,
    So that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations,
    With their kings led in procession.
    For the nation and the kingdom which will not serve you will perish,
    And the nations will be utterly ruined." (Isaiah 60:11-12)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  6. #16
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Israel will rule other nations:

    "Your gates will be open continually;
    They will not be closed day or night,
    So that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations,
    With their kings led in procession.
    For the nation and the kingdom which will not serve you will perish,
    And the nations will be utterly ruined." (Isaiah 60:11-12)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Since that predates the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 63BC, in which a nation that didn't serve Zion clearly did not perish or be ruined, that prophecy fails even worse than the previous one.

    Further on in the same chapter:

    "Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders"

    Prophecy shredded.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  7. #17
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Since that predates the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 63BC, in which a nation that didn't serve Zion clearly did not perish or be ruined, that prophecy fails even worse than the previous one.

    Further on in the same chapter:

    "Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders"

    Prophecy shredded.
    But I take this prophecy as one that will be fulfilled in the future, not one that was fulfilled before 63 BC.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  8. #18
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Is there any nation in existence at the time about which the statement would not have been true?
    Israel will rule other nations:
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But I take this prophecy as one that will be fulfilled in the future, not one that was fulfilled before 63 BC.
    You were asked about the past/present, not the future.

    As usual you are demonstrating your dishonesty clearly.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

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