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  • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I don't recall this, can you give me a link?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    I will add this, which represents your inability to do your home work, and respond to The Lurch's references.

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933860/



    Selenocysteine, Pyrrolysine, and the Unique Energy Metabolism of Methanogenic Archaea

    Abstract

    Methanogenic archaea are a group of strictly anaerobic microorganisms characterized by their strict dependence on the process of methanogenesis for energy conservation. Among the archaea, they are also the only known group synthesizing proteins containing selenocysteine or pyrrolysine. All but one of the known archaeal pyrrolysine-containing and all but two of the confirmed archaeal selenocysteine-containing protein are involved in methanogenesis. Synthesis of these proteins proceeds through suppression of translational stop codons but otherwise the two systems are fundamentally different. This paper highlights these differences and summarizes the recent developments in selenocysteine- and pyrrolysine-related research on archaea and aims to put this knowledge into the context of their unique energy metabolism.


    1. Introduction
    Expansion of the amino acid repertoire of proteins beyond the 20 “canonical” amino acids is a phenomenon observed almost 50 years ago [1]. Numerous modifications of the carboxyl- or amino-terminals or the individual side chains of amino acids after ribosomal synthesis of the respective polypeptide had finished were identified and the biosynthetic path elucidated (reviewed in [2]). It is thus not surprising that a similar process was assumed when selenocysteine, 2-selenoalanine, was discovered as constituent of eukaryal and bacterial proteins [3]. What made selenocysteine special is that subsequent efforts established the cotranslational nature of its insertion into proteins at the position of a UGA stop codon on the respective mRNA [4, 5]. Thus, selenocysteine was designated the 21st proteinogenic amino acid [6]. Discovery of pyrrolysine, lysine with εN in amide linkage to (4R,5R)-4-methyl-pyrroline-5-carboxylate, occurred in a different order, a single in-frame amber codon within the gene encoding the monomethylamine (MMA) methyltransferase in Methanosarcina barkeri [7, 8] was later found to correspond to pyrrolysine in the crystal structure [9, 10] and have its own tRNA [11]. As pyrrolysine was also shown to be inserted cotranslationally, it was designated the 22nd proteinogenic amino acid [10]. Beside the fact that translation of selenocysteine and pyrrolysine both involves suppression of stop codons the two systems have little in common (also reviewed in [12, 13]). To emphasize the differences between the mechanisms underlying selenocysteine and pyrrolysine translation, to summarize recent insights from efforts to better understand the biology of these two unusual amino acids, and to put this knowledge into the physiological context of the unique energy metabolism of methanogenesis are the aims of this paper.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      You were shown in proteins and DNA is evolving to include new combinations that include up to 22 amino acids.
      I don't recall this, can you give me a link?
      There have been several links provided in this thread, Dory.

      Why should some-one else search for them? If you really were interested in learning you'd have found them already.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        I have repeated this many times with references, that yes the set of 20 dominates all life after the first LUCA...
        "First LUCA" is an oxymoron. "LUCA" suffices.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          "First LUCA" is an oxymoron. "LUCA" suffices.
          ok
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            You were shown in proteins and DNA is evolving to include new combinations that include up to 22 amino acids.
            Thanks for the reference, though I don't see how expanding the amino acid set to 22 shows that they are currently evolving.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              Thanks for the reference, though I don't see how expanding the amino acid set to 22 shows that they are currently evolving.

              Blessings,
              Lee
              That is one way evolution takes place as described in the references. It appears you have not read nor followed the references and the explanation The Lurch gave.

              Since you lack the background to understand the references. The fact that 'you do not see' does not count for anything.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                That is one way evolution takes place as described in the references. It appears you have not read nor followed the references and the explanation The Lurch gave.

                Since you lack the background to understand the references. The fact that 'you do not see' does not count for anything.
                But this is not an argument, I need substantial counterpoints, to show me how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  But this is not an argument, I need substantial counterpoints, to show me how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  Both The Lurch and I gave you the references and you are mindlessly stone walling without reading the source nor likely understanding them.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Both The Lurch and I gave you the references and you are mindlessly stone walling without reading the source nor likely understanding them.
                    None of the references showed amino acid sets currently evolving, if not, show me where they did so.

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      None of the references showed amino acid sets currently evolving, if not, show me where they did so.
                      Have you looked up how many different genetic codes there are yet? If not, why should we supply Mr. "i'm willing to learn" with more links you'll ignore?
                      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        None of the references showed amino acid sets currently evolving, if not, show me where they did so.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee

                        The references show the evolution beyond the set of twenty, and reasons why the basic sets of amino acids evolved to what they are. Evolution takes place by natural selection. References were provided and you have not responded to the references, nor have you demonstrated the basic knowledge to understand the references. If there is not pressure for evolution to change there will not be significant change.

                        Why should the sets of amino acids continuously change?
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-20-2019, 06:47 PM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          None of the references showed amino acid sets currently evolving, ...
                          Says some-one who hasn't actually read them.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                            Have you looked up how many different genetic codes there are yet? If not, why should we supply Mr. "i'm willing to learn" with more links you'll ignore?
                            Well, there are more than one, though I need to be shown how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              If there is not pressure for evolution to change there will not be significant change.

                              Why should the sets of amino acids continuously change?
                              I actually hold that the amino acid set we have now doesn't change, because it is so fundamental to life. Others here are arguing that amino acids sets evolved, and I wonder how.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                                Well, there are more than one, though I need to be shown how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                Still have not answered the question: Why should the sets of amino acids continuously change?

                                Still waiting . . .
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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