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Thread: Optimized amino acids

  1. #151
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    I have a BA in biochemistry, a PhD in molecular and cellular biology, and have done over a dozen years of post-doctoral and faculty-level research in the biological sciences.

    Don't equate casual phrasing with lack of knowledge.

    EDIT: correcting my own error - apologies for the stupidity.
    If you are that well educated, then there really isn't any excuse for saying this...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch
    How much do you know about the process of charging tRNAs with amino acids for translation? Because that's the process that would undergo changes to broaden/alter the amino acid repertoire. It's done by an enzyme, and it's no harder for it to change its substrate specificity than it is for something that, say, digests antibiotics.
    ... because it is simply not true.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    Given that evolution has been demonstrated repeatedly, it's not something that has to be assumed, so i'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
    Any evolution of the set of amino acids from among other potential sets would have happened before the so-called LUCA and is therefore hypothetical and assumed.

  3. Amen lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  4. #153
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    Oxygen wasn't present in significant amounts until much later in life's history; oxidative damage wasn't unlikely to be a significant issue until over a billion years after life started. So the phrase "make life possible" is simply wrong, and implies he was either careless, or didn't read or think carefully about the implications of the papers he was citing.
    Rana talks about that and attributes the inclusion of the extra amino acids before they were neededas a sign of foresight by a Creator.

    Didn't you read Rana's post?

  5. #154
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    You've changed "just-right" to "right". Perhaps "just-right" implies optimality, in which case the first paper could be claiming it's the best possible set.
    "Just-right" is Rana's term. It isn't from either paper.

  6. #155
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    Any evolution of the set of amino acids from among other potential sets would have happened before the so-called LUCA and is therefore hypothetical and assumed.
    It is true once the set of 20 dominated, and the alternative sets failed and did not survive primarily due to the efficiency of the ability at energy transfer and reproduction. The references cited previously described the reasons that the set of 20 survived as the most optimal. Actually the set of amino acids have evolved since to a potential of 22 in some amino acid sets.

    Of course, LUCA represents using the set of 20 amino acids with no others surviving, which is the way evolution works. The problem you are 'arguing from ignorance,' which fails to make a constructive argument for either side. The many many examples that only one lineage of species survive and others do not, which is normal for evolution.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

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  7. #156
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    "Just-right" is Rana's term. It isn't from either paper.
    In evolution the anecdotal "just-right," nor even "right," are subjective, and have no productive meaning nor context in a scientific argument for falsification of a hypothesis.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #157
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    I'll just point out that sterility creates just as strong an evolutionary selection as lethality, so you're clearly wrong.
    Well, whether it's sterility or lethality, the evolutionary blockade is firmly set against evolution of amino acid sets, we don't see them evolving now, so change in this area would be difficult. Difficult as well for LUCA...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #158
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, whether it's sterility or lethality, the evolutionary blockade is firmly set against evolution of amino acid sets, we don't see them evolving now, so change in this area would be difficult. Difficult as well for LUCA...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Yes we do as cited.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  10. #159
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    There are many amino acids found on the earth. Perhaps hundreds.

    The question is why are the relatively few used optimal (in the properties that the researchers tested for)?
    There are many possible shapes for a fast swimming animal. Maybe millions. The question is; why are the relatively few shapes used, optimal?

  11. #160
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    This paper is trying to explain the two different classes of synthetases that are used to process the current set of amino acids. It does nothing to show that life ever used any other amino acid sets.
    Did you read the full paper, or only the abstract?
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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