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Thread: Who raised Jesus from the dead?

  1. #31
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    Well the standard doctrine of the ‘hypostatic union’ states unequivocally that Jesus Christ is one Person, simultaneously fully God and fully man. If, as it seems, this is what you are arguing then your argument is a logical contradiction.
    Wikipedia has a reasonably clear and accurate explanation:

    Source: Wikipedia

    Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις hypóstasis, "sediment, foundation, substance, subsistence") is a technical term in Christian theology employed in mainstream Christology to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence.

    The most basic explanation for the hypostatic union is Jesus Christ being both God and man. He is both perfectly divine and perfectly human.

    The Athanasian Creed recognized this doctrine and affirmed its importance, stating that "He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity. Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human."

    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Hypostatic_union

    © Copyright Original Source


    Stop thinking of Jesus' two natures in a quantitative sense, as if he were a 24oz bottle in which 24oz of humanity and 24oz of divinity are both poured in. That's what's getting you confused.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #32
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Wikipedia has a reasonably clear and accurate explanation:

    Source: Wikipedia

    Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις hypóstasis, "sediment, foundation, substance, subsistence") is a technical term in Christian theology employed in mainstream Christology to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence.

    The most basic explanation for the hypostatic union is Jesus Christ being both God and man. He is both perfectly divine and perfectly human.

    The Athanasian Creed recognized this doctrine and affirmed its importance, stating that "He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity. Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human."

    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Hypostatic_union

    © Copyright Original Source


    Stop thinking of Jesus' two natures in a quantitative sense, as if he were a 24oz bottle in which 24oz of humanity and 24oz of divinity are both poured in. That's what's getting you confused.
    So Jesus is like a certs, two, two, two mints in one!

  3. #33
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    So Jesus is like a certs, two, two, two mints in one!
    or maybe like you are a human being AND a jackass.

  4. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
  5. #34
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    or maybe like you are a human being AND a jackass.

  6. #35
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Stop thinking of Jesus' two natures in a quantitative sense, as if he were a 24oz bottle in which 24oz of humanity and 24oz of divinity are both poured in. That's what's getting you confused.
    I prefer Kierkegaard's approach to the hypostatic union in his Philosophical Fragments: “The dual nature of Christ is explored as a paradox, as "the ultimate paradox", because God, understood as a perfectly good, perfectly wise, perfectly powerful being, fully became a human, in the Christian understanding of the term: burdened by sin, limited in goodness, knowledge, and understanding. This paradox can only be resolved, Kierkegaard believed, by a leap of faith away from one's understanding and reason towards belief in God; thus the paradox of the hypostatic union was crucial to an abiding faith in the Christian God. As the precise nature of this union is held to defy finite human comprehension, the hypostatic union is also referred to by the alternative term "mystical union".

    In short, the double nature of Christ is an article of faith.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  7. #36
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    I prefer Kierkegaard's approach to the hypostatic union in his Philosophical Fragments: “The dual nature of Christ is explored as a paradox, as "the ultimate paradox", because God, understood as a perfectly good, perfectly wise, perfectly powerful being, fully became a human, in the Christian understanding of the term: burdened by sin, limited in goodness, knowledge, and understanding. This paradox can only be resolved, Kierkegaard believed, by a leap of faith away from one's understanding and reason towards belief in God; thus the paradox of the hypostatic union was crucial to an abiding faith in the Christian God. As the precise nature of this union is held to defy finite human comprehension, the hypostatic union is also referred to by the alternative term "mystical union".

    In short, the double nature of Christ is an article of faith.
    Sort of like their faith in the co-existence of an omniscient creator and a free wiled creationl. Reason and logic go out the window.

  8. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  9. #37
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    I prefer Kierkegaard's approach to the hypostatic union in his Philosophical Fragments: “The dual nature of Christ is explored as a paradox, as "the ultimate paradox", because God, understood as a perfectly good, perfectly wise, perfectly powerful being, fully became a human, in the Christian understanding of the term: burdened by sin, limited in goodness, knowledge, and understanding. This paradox can only be resolved, Kierkegaard believed, by a leap of faith away from one's understanding and reason towards belief in God; thus the paradox of the hypostatic union was crucial to an abiding faith in the Christian God. As the precise nature of this union is held to defy finite human comprehension, the hypostatic union is also referred to by the alternative term "mystical union".

    In short, the double nature of Christ is an article of faith.
    None of that contradicts anything I've said. I think it's safe to say that you misunderstand why Kierkegaard considered this a paradox, and it's not because he thought Jesus is a 200% being. It's because we humans lack the capacity to understand the exact mechanism that allows a human and divine nature to coexist in a single person.

    However, I disagree with this presentation of Christian faith. God never asks us to abandon our reason when we approach him. Biblical faith is never irrational.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #38
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    None of that contradicts anything I've said. I think it's safe to say that you misunderstand why Kierkegaard considered this a paradox, and it's not because he thought Jesus is a 200% being. It's because we humans lack the capacity to understand the exact mechanism that allows a human and divine nature to coexist in a single person.

    However, I disagree with this presentation of Christian faith. God never asks us to abandon our reason when we approach him. Biblical faith is never irrational.
    God never asks you anything, you abandon reason all by yourself. As a matter of fact, if there was a god he would probably be ashamed for you, not using the brain he provided you with.

  11. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  12. #39
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamenbrain View Post
    God never asks you anything, you abandon reason all by yourself. As a matter of fact, if there was a god he would probably be ashamed for you, not using the brain he provided you with.
    You will be judged by your own words.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  13. #40
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    None of that contradicts anything I've said. I think it's safe to say that you misunderstand why Kierkegaard considered this a paradox, and it's not because he thought Jesus is a 200% being. It's because we humans lack the capacity to understand the exact mechanism that allows a human and divine nature to coexist in a single person.
    We "lack the capacity to understand the exact mechanism that allows a human and divine nature to coexist in a single person", because it is an incoherent notion. It can only be understood as a divine mystery and believed as an article of faith.

    However, I disagree with this presentation of Christian faith. God never asks us to abandon our reason when we approach him. Biblical faith is never irrationa
    Belief in an invisible all-powerful deity is in itself "irrational", not to mention all the spiritual baggage that goes with it.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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