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  • #16
    I read this on the BLS. In 1968 1.60 the minimum wage is the equivalent of 11.70 as of January 2018. The current minimum wage is only 7.25. So yes wages are lagging.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Washington Democrats are some of the wealthiest people in America. What's worse, many of them accumulate their wealth while serving in office. Barack Obama is a classic example.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex.../#4a1b0d6f5bf0
      I know you don't understand this MM, but we progressives don't have any problem with wealthy politicians, we have a problem with corrupt politicians and corrupt government.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
        I read this on the BLS. In 1968 1.60 the minimum wage is the equivalent of 11.70 as of January 2018. The current minimum wage is only 7.25. So yes wages are lagging.
        What does the minimum wage have to do with anything? Wages are set by market forces not the government.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #19
          And just think, if everybody worked three jobs, then we get could unemployment down into the negative!

          Spoilers (click to see)
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #20
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            What does the minimum wage have to do with anything? Wages are set by market forces not the government.
            I haven't read this thread; I'm merely responding to the last part of this comment. While it is true that market forces are at play in establishing wages, they are rightfully at force for setting the top of the bar - not the bottom. If market forces determine the bottom, then employees will always receive the least possible amount of money a company can give, which is not always a living wage. It becomes a "race to the bottom." As companies compete to cut prices to better position against competition, wages (which are a dominant part of any company's expenses) are a quick way to bring costs down. If there is a national minimum (which states can increase but not decrease), it levels the bar across all companies, forcing companies to find other ways to minimize cost to reduce prices, or forcing all companies to raise prices on a common basis.

            The numbers are real. The bottom 50% of our country have seen their purchasing power diminish since the 1970s, while the top 10% have seen their purchasing powers skyrocket. In essence, the top is building their wealth on the backs of the bottom. If this is not an injustice, I don't know what is.

            Capitalism prioritizes one thing: money. For this reason, it must be regulated. Wage regulation is one of the many appropriate forms of regulation that need to be brought to bear.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Manufacturing industry posts biggest annual job gain in 20 years

              https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/manu...ince-1997.html
              Did you read the linked article at the bottom of that one...?
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Yep, you got that right at least, they own the republican party.
                Some of the wealthiest are Democrats, Jimmy. Heck just look at who owns Google, Yahoo, Amazon, etc.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Yep, you got that right at least, they own the republican party.
                  There's big money in BOTH parties, Jim. It's not just the Republicans.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    I haven't read this thread; I'm merely responding to the last part of this comment. While it is true that market forces are at play in establishing wages, they are rightfully at force for setting the top of the bar - not the bottom. If market forces determine the bottom, then employees will always receive the least possible amount of money a company can give, which is not always a living wage. It becomes a "race to the bottom." As companies compete to cut prices to better position against competition, wages (which are a dominant part of any company's expenses) are a quick way to bring costs down. If there is a national minimum (which states can increase but not decrease), it levels the bar across all companies, forcing companies to find other ways to minimize cost to reduce prices, or forcing all companies to raise prices on a common basis.

                    The numbers are real. The bottom 50% of our country have seen their purchasing power diminish since the 1970s, while the top 10% have seen their purchasing powers skyrocket. In essence, the top is building their wealth on the backs of the bottom. If this is not an injustice, I don't know what is.

                    Capitalism prioritizes one thing: money. For this reason, it must be regulated. Wage regulation is one of the many appropriate forms of regulation that need to be brought to bear.
                    That isn't true either. Companies have to compete to get the best workers. If Carpe's Widget Emporium is only paying 25 cents an hour and Sparko's Gadget Gala is paying 50 cents an hour, Sparko will get the best workers. So Carpe will need to compete to get some of the workers back. Which Sparko will need to raise his rates too.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Did you read the linked article at the bottom of that one...?
                      Your article came out before the job surge and wage increase report I linked. Your report said job hiring was slowing, the EXACT opposite actually happened in December.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Which Sparko will need to raise his rates too.
                        Is there a big market in peg legs?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Your article came out before the job surge and wage increase report I linked. Your report said job hiring was slowing, the EXACT opposite actually happened in December.
                          December is one month, Seer. You don't make a statement about "trends" on the basis of a single data point. That being said, I just looked at the Bureau Of Labor Statistics site to see what the trend lines actually are. By year, we see:

                          2010 - 1053 (first year after the start of the recession with positive job growth)
                          2011 - 2090
                          2012 - 2151
                          2013 - 2301
                          2014 - 3005
                          2015 - 2712
                          2016 - 2344
                          2017 - 2188
                          2018 - 2638

                          So although there was a dip in 2017, 2018 numbers appear to be slightly above the norm established under Obama. From 2011-2016 the average was 202 jobs/month. For Trumps tenure, the average has been 201 jobs per month. I know that there has been a great deal of smoke blown about how many more jobs Trump has created, but that claim simply is not supported by the data. Basically, he's holding approximately the line set from 2011-2016.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            That isn't true either. Companies have to compete to get the best workers. If Carpe's Widget Emporium is only paying 25 cents an hour and Sparko's Gadget Gala is paying 50 cents an hour, Sparko will get the best workers. So Carpe will need to compete to get some of the workers back. Which Sparko will need to raise his rates too.
                            All of that may apply to high-salary, white collar work, but it doesn't generally apply to minimum wage line workers. Companies don't invest a great deal in these people, it takes a couple hours to train them, and if/when they leave there is another poor sod waiting to take the position. They're cannon fodder. Up until fairly recently, anyone getting an entry job at Wal*Mart would instantly qualify for food stamps and welfare support because they were below the poverty line. An unskilled parent would need to work two such jobs to make ends meet - resulting in that much less time with family, with all of the subsequent financial and social costs of that situation. If we did not have a minimum wage, these most vulnerable employees would see their wages quickly slashed even further to reduce cost. There is a reason why over 190 countries have a specified minimum wage for employees.

                            Meanwhile, the top earners at Wal*Mart and the shareholders are walking away with millions. Until that inequity is resolved, I will stand solidly behind social programs to help those disadvantaged by such a system to get the assistance they need.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              All of that may apply to high-salary, white collar work, but it doesn't generally apply to minimum wage line workers. Companies don't invest a great deal in these people, it takes a couple hours to train them, and if/when they leave there is another poor sod waiting to take the position. They're cannon fodder. Up until fairly recently, anyone getting an entry job at Wal*Mart would instantly qualify for food stamps and welfare support because they were below the poverty line. An unskilled parent would need to work two such jobs to make ends meet - resulting in that much less time with family, with all of the subsequent financial and social costs of that situation. If we did not have a minimum wage, these most vulnerable employees would see their wages quickly slashed even further to reduce cost. There is a reason why over 190 countries have a specified minimum wage for employees.

                              Meanwhile, the top earners at Wal*Mart and the shareholders are walking away with millions. Until that inequity is resolved, I will stand solidly behind social programs to help those disadvantaged by such a system to get the assistance they need.
                              I know many, many people who started out making minimum wage at "cannon fodder" jobs. I know almost no one who remained at that level for very long.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                I know many, many people who started out making minimum wage at "cannon fodder" jobs. I know almost no one who remained at that level for very long.
                                Then I have to assume you haven't been around much. I know people who have been locked into these minimum wage jobs for years, caught between the need to put food on the table and pay the bills, and the desire to get an education and better themselves. And some simply lack the potential to get higher paying work.

                                Perhaps there is a tendency for us to see what we want to see.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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