National Emergency

[carpedm9587]

Which allows for the possibility that, at times, it's not.

"clinging to the claim"?

Carpe, a used car salesman can tell me that his intentions are pure, but I know better than to take him at his word --- there's that old expression "your actions speak so loud I can't hear what you're saying".



And THIS!!!!! You always gotta throw in the gripe, and speak your mind, then hand wave it away as insignificant. If it's so insignificant, why do you address it at all?

I think you are a very confused and conflicted man.

You're opinion is duly noted. I'd prefer to return to the original discussion, and let you carry on about my intentions. If you have anything further on the employment and minimum wage issue, I'll respond. Concerning my intentions, last word to you.

[Cow Poke]

You're opinion is duly noted. I'd prefer to return to the original discussion, and let you carry on about my intentions. So last word to you.

No, no, no.... please feel free to have the last word! I insist!

[carpedm9587]

No, no, no.... please feel free to have the last word! I insist!

No thanks

[One Bad Pig]

It continues to amaze me how people on this site can "read someone's mind and intentions" and insist they have it right, when they have actually no way of knowing. But it certainly happens a lot.

I have yet to see anyone, anywhere, say "your opinion is noted" and proceed to seriously address it. From here, it looks like a handwave/dismissal. Feel free to "note" this (or not).

[carpedm9587]

I have yet to see anyone, anywhere, say "your opinion is noted" and proceed to seriously address it. From here, it looks like a handwave/dismissal. Feel free to "note" this (or not).

I have no clue what this mean...or how it applies to the discussion.

[One Bad Pig]

I have no clue what this mean...or how it applies to the discussion.

Fascinating.

[carpedm9587]

Fascinating.

That response doesn't do a lot to help me understand your point.

[Sparko]

I have no clue what this mean...or how it applies to the discussion.

It means that when someone says, "your opinion is noted" that is shorthand for "I heard you and I am dismissing it" - in other words "handwaving it away"

[carpedm9587]

It means that when someone says, "your opinion is noted" that is shorthand for "I heard you and I am dismissing it" - in other words "handwaving it away"

Ahh... I see.

Yes - when someone states an opinion for something they cannot know - and insists they are right - there isn't much more to do than to note the opinion and move on. An attempt at rational discussion is not going to change anything. So if someone tells me what my motivation is - and I know it's not right - but they insist it is - there isn't much else to be said.

If that is "handwaving" - so be it. There are worse problems in life.

And this entire discussion has received far too much attention. I need to be better at letting people make their judgments and just letting it be. Discussing it is pointless.

[Sparko]

Ahh... I see.

Yes - when someone states an opinion for something they cannot know - and insists they are right - there isn't much more to do than to note the opinion and move on. An attempt at rational discussion is not going to change anything. So if someone tells me what my motivation is - and I know it's not right - but they insist it is - there isn't much else to be said.

If that is "handwaving" - so be it. There are worse problems in life.

And this entire discussion has received far too much attention. I need to be better at letting people make their judgments and just letting it be. Discussing it is pointless.

Have you noticed that you routinely do the very things you get frustrated at others doing? You "read minds" like when you said I was calling poor people "lazy and shiftless" - you use anectdotal evidence when it suits you but when others do it you say it's a single example and doesn't count. You state your opinions all the time without any evidence and yet when others do it you just dismiss them and go on. And then when you can't ignore them any longer you make a frustrated fart and say "well, this is pointless! I will let you have the last word" until they try to have the last word then you can't help but stick your nose right back into the discussion.

Look in the mirror sometimes, Carp.

[carpedm9587]

Have you noticed that you routinely do the very things you get frustrated at others doing? You "read minds" like when you said I was calling poor people "lazy and shiftless" -

If you go back to the discussion, you will note that I acknowledged they were my words - and pointed out that you picked them up and added "involved with drugs or gangs" as the other alternative. Nowhere, in any of your posts, did I find any reflection of even so much as one person who could be truly trapped in the cycle of poverty and in need of help/support. Indeed, you message from start to end was "if they want to, they can get out," the implication being that if they are not out - they obviously don't want to. Review yiour own posts, Sparko - and show me where that observation is incorrect. My posts are based on what you SAID - not what you were THINKING or what motivated you.

you use anectdotal evidence when it suits you but when others do it you say it's a single example and doesn't count.

Following on the above observation - if someone is speaking in a manner that suggests that a thing doesn't exist (i.e., people truly trapped in poverty), then a single example IS enough to show the position wrong. You are comparing apples to oranges, my friend.

You state your opinions all the time without any evidence and yet when others do it you just dismiss them and go on.

I am actually fairly careful to provide the basis for my opinions - but I acknowledge that I don't put a link in every post. If I have already linked the sources that were the basis for my opinion, I'm not going to continually repeat them.

And I don't recall ever saying that "opinion" was a bad thing?

And then when you can't ignore them any longer you make a frustrated fart and say "well, this is pointless! I will let you have the last word" until they try to have the last word then you can't help but stick your nose right back into the discussion.

When a discussion becomes clearly pointless - I do attempt to disengage. I realize that gives people the opportunity to say "see - you can't respond to my points so you're just leaving." Again - that is a bit of mind reading on your part (and that of others). I leave when the conversation has become repetitious and further advance seems impossible (or at least highly unlikely). I usually don't leave anywhere near soon enough - which I need to get better at.

I plead guilty to the latter. I have about a 50% track record of actually disconnecting from the discussion. Sometimes it's intentional - I just feel a need to respond (and I should not - I admit). Sometimes it's accidental. I may disconnect from one person in a discussion, but the discussion continues with others and, down the line, the original person posts and I respond, forgetting I had disconnected. Such is life - it happens. I'm not going to sweat those.

Look in the mirror sometimes, Carp.

I do - every time I shave. Handsome devil!

[Sparko]

If you go back to the discussion, you will note that I acknowledged they were my words -

Yeah YOUR words that you were accusing me of calling poor people.

and pointed out that you picked them up and added "involved with drugs or gangs" as the other alternative. Nowhere, in any of your posts, did I find any reflection of even so much as one person who could be truly trapped in the cycle of poverty and in need of help/support. Indeed, you message from start to end was "if they want to, they can get out," the implication being that if they are not out - they obviously don't want to. Review yiour own posts, Sparko - and show me where that observation is incorrect. My posts are based on what you SAID - not what you were THINKING or what motivated you.
.

Following on the above observation - if someone is speaking in a manner that suggests that a thing doesn't exist (i.e., people truly trapped in poverty), then a single example IS enough to show the position wrong. You are comparing apples to oranges, my friend.

I am actually fairly careful to provide the basis for my opinions - but I acknowledge that I don't put a link in every post. If I have already linked the sources that were the basis for my opinion, I'm not going to continually repeat them.

And I don't recall ever saying that "opinion" was a bad thing?

When a discussion becomes clearly pointless - I do attempt to disengage. I realize that gives people the opportunity to say "see - you can't respond to my points so you're just leaving." Again - that is a bit of mind reading on your part (and that of others). I leave when the conversation has become repetitious and further advance seems impossible (or at least highly unlikely). I usually don't leave anywhere near soon enough - which I need to get better at.

I plead guilty to the latter. I have about a 50% track record of actually disconnecting from the discussion. Sometimes it's intentional - I just feel a need to respond (and I should not - I admit). Sometimes it's accidental. I may disconnect from one person in a discussion, but the discussion continues with others and, down the line, the original person posts and I respond, forgetting I had disconnected. Such is life - it happens. I'm not going to sweat those.



I do - every time I shave. Handsome devil!

That is something else you do, You can't just admit when someone calls you out on your behavior. You have to excuse it somehow.

[carpedm9587]

Yeah YOUR words that you were accusing me of calling poor people.

That is something else you do, You can't just admit when someone calls you out on your behavior. You have to excuse it somehow.

As you wish, Sparko. Again - opinions on my person are not really germaine to the discussion. Your opinion is noted. If you have something to add to the actual discussion about employment and wages, I'll be happy to respond - otherwise I'll leave you to it.

[Sparko]

As you wish, Sparko. Again - opinions on my person are not really germaine to the discussion. Your opinion is noted. If you have something to add to the actual discussion about employment and wages, I'll be happy to respond - otherwise I'll leave you to it.

There you go again.

[Cow Poke]

Ahh... I see.

Yes - when someone states an opinion for something they cannot know - and insists they are right - there isn't much more to do than to note the opinion and move on. An attempt at rational discussion is not going to change anything. So if someone tells me what my motivation is - and I know it's not right - but they insist it is - there isn't much else to be said.

If that is "handwaving" - so be it. There are worse problems in life.

And this entire discussion has received far too much attention. I need to be better at letting people make their judgments and just letting it be. Discussing it is pointless.

And you make it seem like it's all on me that I say something about it, when you just can't let it go.

Like here....

You're opinion is duly noted. I'd prefer to return to the original discussion, and let you carry on about my intentions. If you have anything further on the employment and minimum wage issue, I'll respond. Concerning my intentions, last word to you.

So this "I'd prefer to return to the original discussion" is AFTER you keep it going and "carry on" about your intentions.