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Will “Christian conservative” be an oxymoron in 2019?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    I agree that Trump favoring Evangelicals look NOTHING like Bush II and Bush I favoring Evangelicals. There has been a drastic split even between types of evangelical Christians. Its quite ugly and I know a number of folks who don't even use the word "Evangelical" to identify themselves because of the negative connotations it carries.
    Yes. "America right now works for the rich and powerful. We need to call that out for what it is: corruption, pure and simple". Elizabeth Warren.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      And you repeat another lie that you've been corrected on, that the policy of separating children from their parents at the border was inhumane and arbitrary when the truth is that it was only the parents of children who entered illegally who had their children removed ...
      Your 'truth' is the lie. Children have been taken from parents entering legally.

      Source: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/district-court-judge-rules-that-trump-administration-child-separations-would-be-unconstitutional.html

      The first plaintiff is a Congolese woman, Ms. L., who sought asylum at a U.S. port of entry. She had her six-year-old taken from her, purportedly because the government doubted her parentage, and only had her daughter returned four months later after the government was made to conduct a DNA test following the issuance of the suit.
      ...
      Ms. L’s child was actually brought here legally—as were several other similarly situated parents according to the ACLU’s affidavits—in accordance with our country’s international agreements on asylum consideration.

      © Copyright Original Source



      This has been cited here before, so you have no excuse for repeating the Trump-apologist lie.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Yes. "America right now works for the rich and powerful. We need to call that out for what it is: corruption, pure and simple". Elizabeth Warren.
        Thus saith a rich, powerful white woman who parleyed a faux heritage into getting lucrative jobs.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
          Your 'truth' is the lie. Children have been taken from parents entering legally.

          Source: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/district-court-judge-rules-that-trump-administration-child-separations-would-be-unconstitutional.html

          The first plaintiff is a Congolese woman, Ms. L., who sought asylum at a U.S. port of entry. She had her six-year-old taken from her, purportedly because the government doubted her parentage, and only had her daughter returned four months later after the government was made to conduct a DNA test following the issuance of the suit.
          ...
          Ms. L’s child was actually brought here legally—as were several other similarly situated parents according to the ACLU’s affidavits—in accordance with our country’s international agreements on asylum consideration.

          © Copyright Original Source



          This has been cited here before, so you have no excuse for repeating the Trump-apologist lie.
          Very first line of your source: "Over the past month, the Trump administration has begun to implement a policy..."

          False. That policy was in place long before Trump and was infamously enforced by the Obama administration when children were literally put in cages (the mainstream media was, of course, studiously disinterested in this story in 2014).

          At any rate, if I had argued that the system is flawless and that mistakes never happen then you might have a point. I didn't, and you don't. In Ms. L's case, we don't know what compelled immigration officials to question her claims of parentage, so it's impossible to say anything for or against that particular scenario.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            [Attempt to avoid the issue deleted]
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            In Ms. L's case, we don't know what compelled immigration officials to question her claims of parentage, so it's impossible to say anything for or against that particular scenario.
            It's possible to say that at least one legal immigrant and was separated from their child, and that you are repeating a lie.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              The Republican Party is composed of several factions. There is a conservative wing in the party.
              That doesn't even make sense, Chuck.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                I am quite comfortable identifying as both Christian and conservative. Trump is not my standard-bearer (and is not particularly conservative, in any case). He does some things which align with conservative principles, which I like. He does some things which markedly fail to align with Christian principles, which I don't like.

                Unfortunately, the other significant party does no things whatsoever which align with conservative principles, and also does things which markedly fail to align with Christian principles.
                ^^That.

                We have said over and over that most of us don't like Trump as a person. He doesn't make a good Christian or even a good person most of the time. But when compared with our other choice, Hillary, he is way better as a person AND as a President. Trump isn't our pope. He is our President.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  ^^That.

                  We have said over and over that most of us don't like Trump as a person. He doesn't make a good Christian or even a good person most of the time. But when compared with our other choice, Hillary, he is way better as a person AND as a President. Trump isn't our pope. He is our President.
                  As I like to put it, I don't like Trump as a person, but I like him as President.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
                    [Attempt to avoid the issue deleted]It's possible to say that at least one legal immigrant and was separated from their child...
                    Again, we really don't know anything about this case, so it's impossible to say one way or another. If you could provide more details then we might have something to discuss.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Again, we really don't know anything about this case, so it's impossible to say one way or another. If you could provide more details then we might have something to discuss.
                      On the face of it, we know enough to say that one person who had legally applied for asylum was separated from her child on the suspicion that it was not hers. That appears to be sufficient to make your claim untrue. You could argue that it was an exceptional case.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        It's possible to say that at least one legal immigrant and was separated from their child...
                        Again, we really don't know anything about this case, so it's impossible to say one way or another.
                        If it's impossible to say one way or another whether a legal immigrant was separated from their child in this case, it's also impossible to say that it was only the parents of children who entered illegally who had their children removed.

                        But you won't retract your false claim.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          I just read this interesting opinion piece by Matt Lewis who identifies as a (very flawed) Christian and a (somewhat conflicted) conservative. This identification is a little more detailed than the one given in the headline which reads: “I’m a Christian and a Conservative. Trump is Making it Terribly Hard To Be Both.”

                          He details how his political and religious views come increasingly at odds under Trump:

                          “Trump’s fundamental character deficiencies are part of the problem. We all fall short, but Christians aspire to bring about the fruits of the spirit (love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). These virtues aren’t just out of step in today’s society—they are utterly countercultural in Trump’s Republican Party.

                          Unlike Ronald Reagan’s sunny optimism, rooted in faith in America’s future, Trump motivates via fear. His worldview is rooted in a scarcity mentality that says someone else is stealing your share of the pie. This carnal mindset clashes with a faith that calls us to gladly give to others (I’m speaking here about personal charity, not redistribution via the tax code)—and trusts in God to provide for our daily needs.”

                          He sees it from both sides when he says that: “[...] many otherwise decent conservatives entered into this devil’s bargain in 2016—and may do so again in 2020.” but also goes on to say that: “Unfortunately, my Christian conservative friends don’t really have anywhere else to go.”

                          Of course the question of abortion is central and he goes on to point out: “As someone who believes protection of the vulnerable extends to the lives of the unborn, switching teams is not an option for me.” Towards the end he goes on to point out that: “Meanwhile, I’m focused on how to align my values and my politics, and that means prioritizing my values—rather than reverse-engineering them to fit my politics.“


                          https://www.thedailybeast.com/im-a-c...oth?ref=scroll
                          Yet another clown conflating personal inter-relationships with government responsibilities.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            On the face of it, we know enough to say that one person who had legally applied for asylum was separated from her child on the suspicion that it was not hers. That appears to be sufficient to make your claim untrue. You could argue that it was an exceptional case.
                            Like I said, if I had made the claim that the system was perfect and error free then Ignorant Roy would have a point. But I didn't, so he doesn't.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Like I said, if I had made the claim that the system was perfect and error free then Ignorant Roy would have a point. But I didn't, so he doesn't.
                              You claimed that only those who had entered the country illegally had had their children taken from them. Roy showed that your claim was false by providing an example of a case where someone attempting to legally enter the country had her child taken from her. Thus, Roy does indeed have a point, your pretense to the contrary notwithstanding.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Roy showed that your claim was false...
                                No, Ignorant Roy nitpicked, as he is wont to do.

                                Obviously the child was removed only because it was perceived that the woman's entry was illegal in some fashion (in this case, it seems they questioned the legitimacy of her claim to be the child's parent), . But mistakes happen. I never claimed they didn't. And that's the point: this was apparently a mistake rather than a matter of policy to separate children and parents who entered legally.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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