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Cardinal Blames Homosexuality For Church Crisis...

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  • Cardinal Blames Homosexuality For Church Crisis...

    Yea? Na?

    Homosexuality is to blame for sexual abuse, not Catholic church, claims German cardinal

    German cardinal on Friday provoked anger and controversy when he claimed the Catholic church was not responsible for sexual abuse by its clerics, and instead sought to pin the blame on homosexuality.

    “What has happened in the church is no different from what is happening in society as a whole,” Cardinal Walter Brandmüller said. “The real scandal is that the Catholic church hasn’t distinguished itself from the rest of society.”

    A study commissioned by the German Bishops Conference and published last year found that more than 3,600 children were sexually abused by Catholic clergy in Germany between 1946 and 2014.

    But Cardinal Brandmüller claimed that only a “vanishingly small number” of clergy had committed abuses. He said the real problem was homosexuality and claimed it is “statistically proven” that there is a link between homosexuality and abuse.

    Society “forgets or covers up the fact that 80 per cent of cases of sexual assault in the church involved male youths not children,” he told Germany’s DPA news agency in an interview a few days ahead of his 90th birthday.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...church-claims/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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  • #2
    I wonder what's to blame for the crisis in Fundamental Churches. Maybe it starts with Men keep your hands to yourselves instead of any sexual orientation
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Yea? Na?
      Excuses, excuses. If the Catholic church hasn't distinguished itself from sexual abuse in society, which itself is nothing new, then the catholic church is to blame, not society. The catholic church has been covering up for the offenders for ages.

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      • #4
        The role of homosexuality is irrelevant here; what is relevant is that the the Catholic church shuffled abusive clergy around and even, in the case of Pope Francis, defamed accusers without evidence (and even in the case of a Mexican archbishop, threatened would-be accusers). So any attempt to absolve the RCC from blame is doomed to fail. This Cardinal appears unwilling to even consider that both can be to blame.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          So any attempt to absolve the RCC from blame is doomed to fail. This Cardinal appears unwilling to even consider that both can be to blame.
          His statement was that the scandal was the church not distinguishing itself from society. This seems to be putting blame on society for going in this direction and on the church for not deviating from that trend.

          His overall point, though poorly expressed, seems to be the fact that all this attention is paid to the church abuse scandals while other areas of society skate by, a point I'm actually in agreement with. While it's hard to gather evidence for Protestant churches due to their lack of a central authority, this data certainly indicates it's a real problem there as well. I've rarely seen this reported on. And on the secular side, a survey of 8th to 11th graders had nearly 7% report physical sexual abuse from adults at school (the number jumps to almost 10% if we're counting non-physical sexual abuse). Public school abuse at least gets a little airplay, but generally only in terms of news of one case and then forgetting about it, rather than an examination of the larger picture.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            His overall point, though poorly expressed, seems to be the fact that all this attention is paid to the church abuse scandals while other areas of society skate by, a point I'm actually in agreement with. While it's hard to gather evidence for Protestant churches due to their lack of a central authority, this data certainly indicates it's a real problem there as well. I've rarely seen this reported on. And on the secular side, a survey of 8th to 11th graders had nearly 7% report physical sexual abuse from adults at school (the number jumps to almost 10% if we're counting non-physical sexual abuse). Public school abuse at least gets a little airplay, but generally only in terms of news of one case and then forgetting about it, rather than an examination of the larger picture.
            I agree with this. In any setting where adults are in charge of children, there will be abuse and sexual assault. The fact that there's a lack of overarching authority in Protestant churches makes it harder to push for rules beyond the level of a single congregation, and more focus should be put on schools, particularly in after-school activities with teacher control. But it is disappointing that the power structure of the Catholic church meant that they could have done something sooner, and chose not to.

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            • #7
              Homosexuality is a symptom, not the disease.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                German cardinal on Friday provoked anger and controversy when he claimed the Catholic church was not responsible for sexual abuse by its clerics, and instead sought to pin the blame on homosexuality.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                  His statement was that the scandal was the church not distinguishing itself from society. This seems to be putting blame on society for going in this direction and on the church for not deviating from that trend.
                  This is about sexual abuse of kids, what do you mean by society going in this direction, and how does that have anything to do with the catholic church??

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                    His statement was that the scandal was the church not distinguishing itself from society.
                    But the church is distinguishing itself from society, both by its high incidence of abuse and by its choice to relocate offenders rather than expel them.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      But the church is distinguishing itself from society, both by its high incidence of abuse and by its choice to relocate offenders rather than expel them.
                      Perhaps you could provide some evidence supporting this assertion.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LeaC View Post
                        I agree with this. In any setting where adults are in charge of children, there will be abuse and sexual assault. The fact that there's a lack of overarching authority in Protestant churches makes it harder to push for rules beyond the level of a single congregation, and more focus should be put on schools, particularly in after-school activities with teacher control. But it is disappointing that the power structure of the Catholic church meant that they could have done something sooner, and chose not to.
                        And yet, when I (or my colleagues) mention the "Billy Graham rule", it gets met with derision and mockery.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And yet, when I (or my colleagues) mention the "Billy Graham rule", it gets met with derision and mockery.
                          Look at how liberals reacted to Mike Pence when he said that he would never meet privately with a woman who wasn't his wife.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Look at how liberals reacted to Mike Pence when he said that he would never meet privately with a woman who wasn't his wife.
                            EGGzackly - that's what started the round of liberal poo throwing to which I was referring.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              But the church is distinguishing itself from society, both by its high incidence of abuse
                              ...which is happening in regular society, as I indicated with the frequency of sex abuse in public schools. In fact, it might even be on an uptick. Or for a more personalized (albeit more localized) version, see this report as to all the abuse that went on in Chicago's public schools. One can also find alarmingly high rates of abuse in things like sports teams, and #MeToo needs no elaboration. I'm not sure how you'd calculate out the incidences of abuse to compare, but let's not pretend that "society" doesn't have a problematically high rate of abuse. It just gets less attention because of the lack of a centralized authority.

                              The good news is this seems to be shifting, albeit slowly.

                              and by its choice to relocate offenders rather than expel them.
                              Parts of society such as public schools (I know this is my go-to example but only because it's the one I've looked the most at) sometimes "expel" offenders, but very frequently that just amounts to firing them and not bothering to tell anyone about it, allowing them to just go someplace else and continue their ways. I'm not sure that's a big improvement... or necessarily an improvement at all.

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