AR15 Made For 'Unfair' Fight...

[seer]

Well yes it did, and...

Grandfather of Oklahoma teen killed by homeowner in burglary says AR15 made for 'unfair' fight

Three Oklahoma teenagers were killed last week when they broke into a house and were met by a homeowner with an AR15. Now the grandfather of one of the teenagers is speaking out about his grandson's death.

According to KTUL-TV, Leroy Schumacher, grandfather of 17-year-old Jacob Redfearn, believes the death of Redfearn was unjustified because the homeowner's AR15 gave him an unfair advantage over the three burglars.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...r-unfair-fight

[Mountain Man]

What is this country coming to when an honest criminal can't ply his trade without encountering superior force at the hands of a law-abiding citizen?

[Cow Poke]

Apparently, they were never taught such things as 'never bring a knife to a gunfight'?

Unfair, indeed!!!

[rogue06]

Well yes it did, and...

Reminds me of the time as a young teen four older boys decided that they were going to kick my butt basically because they thought they could. That was until I pulled out my hunting knife. They quickly backed off with one whining that I must think I was tough because I had a knife to which I replied that they must have thought they were tough when they were going to attack me 4 on 1.

[Mountain Man]

Reminds me of the time as a young teen four older boys decided that they were going to kick my butt basically because they thought they could. That was until I pulled out my hunting knife. They quickly backed off with one whining that I must think I was tough because I had a knife to which I replied that they must have thought they were tough when they were going to attack me 4 on 1.

Kind of reminds me of the scene at the end of Stand By Me.

"What, are you going to shoot all of us?"
"No, just you."

[Terraceth]

Did he actually say that he believes "the death of Redfearn was unjustified because the homeowner's AR15 gave him an unfair advantage over the three burglars"? Because that's not in quotes, that's the newspaper's description, and I don't see that in the actual quotes listed. His point seems to be that he's saying the owner used excessive force and didn't need to kill all three of them.

[seer]

Did he actually say that he believes "the death of Redfearn was unjustified because the homeowner's AR15 gave him an unfair advantage over the three burglars"? Because that's not in quotes, that's the newspaper's description, and I don't see that in the actual quotes listed. His point seems to be that he's saying the owner used excessive force and didn't need to kill all three of them.

"What these three boys did was stupid," Schumacher said. "They knew they could be punished for it but they did not deserve to die."

"Brass knuckles against an AR-15? C'mon. Who was afraid for their life?" Schumacher said.

[Terraceth]

"What these three boys did was stupid," Schumacher said. "They knew they could be punished for it but they did not deserve to die."

"Brass knuckles against an AR-15? C'mon. Who was afraid for their life?" Schumacher said.

But that's not saying anything about it being unfair. It's just going back to the excessive force argument, that he shouldn't have killed them (or at least shouldn't have killed them all) because they weren't a danger to him in that situation.

There's reasons to reject that argument, but it's more coherent than the claim of it being "unfair" made it out to be.

[seer]

But that's not saying anything about it being unfair. It's just going back to the excessive force argument, that he shouldn't have killed them (or at least shouldn't have killed them all) because they weren't a danger to him in that situation.

There's reasons to reject that argument, but it's more coherent than the claim of it being "unfair" made it out to be.

Well Brass knuckles against an AR-15 seems to be eluding to the advantage the homeowner had.

[mikewhitney]

Maybe the US Representatives will vote to provide AR-15s to youths who will be breaking into homes.

It is true that theft is not to be punished by death but when someone has broken into your house, it is not easy to determine what arms the trespassers have. Also, there can be legal problems arising from injuring someone rather than killing them -- from what I've heard.

One thing not considered here ... the man protecting his house likely is suffering the pain of killing intruders.

[Cow Poke]

...Also, there can be legal problems arising from injuring someone rather than killing them -- from what I've heard...

That's one of those persistent weirdnesses that...

the only "advantage" to them being dead is that there is only one version of the story. It does not, however, preclude the family or loved ones from pursuing wrongful death remedy in civil court.

[rogue06]

That's one of those persistent weirdnesses that...

the only "advantage" to them being dead is that there is only one version of the story. It does not, however, preclude the family or loved ones from pursuing wrongful death remedy in civil court.

They broke into the house. They were 3 against 1. They were armed. Something tells me unless one of them was shot in the back the fact that the homeowner was lucky enough to have been better armed means that any law suit is unlikely to get very far, after all this was in Oklahoma not San Francisco.

[rogue06]

A couple more news accounts:

• NBC: Oklahoma Man Uses AR-15 to Kill Three Teen Home Intruders Another of the intruders was armed with a knife and a female getaway driver is being charged with their murder
  
• KTUL (local ABC affiliate): Family member of teen burglary suspect killed in Wagoner County break-in speaks out
  
• WND: Family of dead burglar: Homeowner's gun meant 'unfair fight' shooter was barricaded in bedroom kept asking police if they'd be alright

The last story says

He explained that he had shot two intruders, whose bodies were found in the kitchen. A third body was found in the driveway of the home.

This suggests that one of the rounds may have struck two of the burglars.

[Mountain Man]

Well Brass knuckles against an AR-15 seems to be eluding to the advantage the homeowner had.

Or it implies, rather absurdly, that teenage boys armed with brass knuckles who have broken into your home are not a threat.

[Cow Poke]

They broke into the house. They were 3 against 1. They were armed. Something tells me unless one of them was shot in the back the fact that the homeowner was lucky enough to have been better armed means that any law suit is unlikely to get very far, after all this was in Oklahoma not San Francisco.

And it goes back to the myth that police officers are trained to "shoot to kill". It is not "shoot to kill", it is "shoot to stop"... and in Texas Concealed Handgun classes, that is stressed for the armed citizen as well. But, yes, in most home invasion scenarios (and the home being occupied at the time of the offense makes it an aggravated crime) a jury (or a judge) will give pretty wide latitude to protecting your casa.