'Traditional Masculinity' Is Harmful...

[Christianbookworm]

Obligatory Disney song

[Starlight]

Way to overstate your case. You'd be somewhat credible if you didn't resort to this sort of thing.

Yawn.

An example of the totally arbitrary ideas of masculinity being advocated as 'traditional' and 'conservative' I saw last week in the news was this, the new regime in Brazil was trumpeting its conservative bona fides:

“Attention, attention. It’s a new era in Brazil. Boys wear blue and girls wear pink,” the newly-appointed minister can be seen shouting, proudly and happily, in unison with a crowd of supporters.

But if you look at the history of baby clothing, it goes:
* Late 19th century: White for both
* Early 20th century: Pink for boys, blue for girls (reverse of current 'tradition')
* 1940s-1960s: Blue for boys, pink for girls (first appearance of current 'tradition')
* 1970s: Back to unisex baby clothing and coloring
* 1980s+: Blue for boys, pink for girls if prenatal testing confirmed gender allowing pre-birth purchasing of clothes, otherwise unisex coloring acceptable.

So in the above example we have a senior politician of a new conservative regime communicating to their supporters their endorsement of traditional gender roles using the words "Boys wear blue and girls wear pink" which is (a) pretty much a totally arbitrary color scheme which has been entirely reversed at one stage and (b) a 'tradition' that is being 'conserved' that isn't even as old as my grandparents.

It's the standard 'conservative' 'traditionalist' ignorance, assuming that whatever arbitrary social and cultural fads happened to be common during their own childhood must be some sort of time-tested tradition or deeply valuable and biologically ingrained social order. Again, it's why studying Cultural Anthropology is the inherent antidote to conservatism because you see the idiocy for what it is.

[Chaotic Void]

Yawn.

An example of the totally arbitrary ideas of masculinity being advocated as 'traditional' and 'conservative' I saw last week in the news was this, the new regime in Brazil was trumpeting its conservative bona fides:

“Attention, attention. It’s a new era in Brazil. Boys wear blue and girls wear pink,” the newly-appointed minister can be seen shouting, proudly and happily, in unison with a crowd of supporters.

But if you look at the history of baby clothing, it goes:
* Late 19th century: White for both
* Early 20th century: Pink for boys, blue for girls (reverse of current 'tradition')
* 1940s-1960s: Blue for boys, pink for girls (first appearance of current 'tradition')
* 1970s: Back to unisex baby clothing and coloring
* 1980s+: Blue for boys, pink for girls if prenatal testing confirmed gender allowing pre-birth purchasing of clothes, otherwise unisex coloring acceptable.

So in the above example we have a senior politician of a new conservative regime communicating to their supporters their endorsement of traditional gender roles using the words "Boys wear blue and girls wear pink" which is (a) pretty much a totally arbitrary color scheme which has been entirely reversed at one stage and (b) a 'tradition' that is being 'conserved' that isn't even as old as my grandparents.

It's the standard 'conservative' 'traditionalist' ignorance, assuming that whatever arbitrary social and cultural fads happened to be common during their own childhood must be some sort of time-tested tradition or deeply valuable and biologically ingrained social order. Again, it's why studying Cultural Anthropology is the inherent antidote to conservatism because you see the idiocy for what it is.

Okay... I'll point out the blatant flaw here before I go back to lurking for the night, aside from the extra-obvious problem that is the fact you're citing the internet rag known as Jezebel: You're using United States data as a rebuttal to something occurring in Brazil. If you want make the point, which isn't a terrible point I may add, you're going to have to use data and research for traditional boy/girl colors for Brazilian culture (or even South America, which would be overly broad but it'd be much more accurate considering that it's in the same continent unlike the North American data you're trying to use).

[Tassman]

Speaking as someone who's been accused of being, "Gay," and, "Effeminate," by various folks because I didn't meet their arbitrary standards of what constitutes, "Straight and Masculine," even though I have zero sexual interest in dudes and I'm FAR from effeminate, I'm not opposed to better defining what masculinity is... Of course, it seems like the APA has gone Potato on the subject (no surprise, given what I've heard about how politically charged the medical professions are, especially Mental Health).

Feeling obliged to meet the “arbitrary standards of what constitutes, Straight and Masculine” is precisely that to which the APA is objecting. So, it is inconsistent for you to then turn around and accuse that estimable body of going “potato” and being “politically charged”.

[NorrinRadd]

...
Yeah, having skimmed that 36-Page PDF linked in the news article, ...

In keeping with the theme, let me just say, "You're a better man than I am." I couldn't make myself do it.

[seer]

Speaking from the opposite perspective - as someone who passes social masculinity tests with flying colors and has never been called effeminate - I simply see no value whatsoever in the ideas of masculinity.

Why do I get the feeling that you are the last person I would want in a fox hole protecting my 6.

[Starlight]

Why do I get the feeling that you are the last person I would want in a fox hole protecting my 6.

Because friendly fire might accidentally occur?

[seer]

Because friendly fire might accidentally occur?

Or more likely you would run away...

[DesertBerean]

Okay... I'll point out the blatant flaw here before I go back to lurking for the night, aside from the extra-obvious problem that is the fact you're citing the internet rag known as Jezebel: You're using United States data as a rebuttal to something occurring in Brazil. If you want make the point, which isn't a terrible point I may add, you're going to have to use data and research for traditional boy/girl colors for Brazilian culture (or even South America, which would be overly broad but it'd be much more accurate considering that it's in the same continent unlike the North American data you're trying to use).

Yes!...THIS!

[TheWall]

The whole men arent supposed to show their emotions thing doesnt make sense. It is a misnomer. It is not about being emotionally unavailable it is about self control.

For my fellow anime fans like Maxvell and Chrawnus I can give examples.
Kenshiro.
Whitebeard.
Kite.

[seer]

Well I won't be buying Gillette any more...

P&G Challenges Men to Shave Their ‘Toxic Masculinity’ in Gillette Ad

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cha...ad-11547467200

[Bill the Cat]

Well I won't be buying Gillette any more...

P&G Challenges Men to Shave Their ‘Toxic Masculinity’ in Gillette Ad

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cha...ad-11547467200

Looks like a challenger for most disliked video on YouTube. Already 13K dislike to 1.5K Like. And cue the wuss SJWs in 3...

[Sparko]

Well I won't be buying Gillette any more...

P&G Challenges Men to Shave Their ‘Toxic Masculinity’ in Gillette Ad

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cha...ad-11547467200

So when do we get to stop Toxic Femininity?

[seer]

So when do we get to stop Toxic Femininity?

Did you know my wife!

[Sparko]

Did you know my wife!