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Thread: Trump and Lying

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Trump and Lying

    There have been several posts about this in various threads, and I thought this would be a good place to have a bit of back and forth about this issue. Many on the right have expressed that the left is simply tripping over itself to label every difference of opinion a "lie." Their point has some merit when articles like this one show up with some regularity. If you read through the article, their "29 outrageous lies" aren't, for the most part, what I would consider lies at all. Such articles simply reinforce the arguments of the right, and I personally would prefer to see them stop. They are counter productive.

    When I refer to Trump's lies, I refer to things like:

    Family separation policy: "we had the exact same policy as the Obama administration." This was untrue when he said it, was clearly shown to be untrue, and yet it is reepeated over and over and over again.

    Open Borders: "Every single Democrat in the U.S. Senate has signed up for the open borders, and it's a bill, it's called the ‘open borders bill.’" There is no such bill, but it has been repeated multiple times.

    U.S. Steel: U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills." There was no such announcement, and U.S. Steel has denied that is happening. They only have four steel mills in the U.S., so opening six (at one point he said seven) would be amazing growth.

    Unemployment: "Missouri is one of "13 states this year have seen unemployment drop to the lowest levels in the history of their state." Again, this is demonstrably false. When he first said it, Missouri was at 3.5% unemployment. It was 3.1% in October of 1999. This is a prime example of A Trump technique: just make up facts on the fly. He did this with Trudeau about the Canada/U.S. trade deficit, and later went on record bragging that he had done so.

    Voting for the healthcare bill: "We have one senator who’s a ‘yes’ vote ... but he’s in the hospital. And he’s a ‘yes’ vote. So we can’t do it by Friday. So we have the votes" to pass a health care bill. They never had the votes to pass the bill, and there was no Senator in the hospital. Despite being repeatedly told this, Trump repeated the assertion, and even Tweeted about it.

    Illegal Immigration: "The border is down 78 percent. Under past administrations, the border didn’t go down -- it went up." He as talking about illegal border crossings, which have been on the decline since 2008. They also dropped at varies times during several other presidencies. They are currently increasing again.

    I could continue on - but I think these pretty much make the point. These are not just hyperbole - they are simply, flat out lies. I largely ignore all of his ridiculous claims related to "best ever," "greatest ever," "most in the history of our country," and all of the other ridiculous hyperbolic claims he makes. But when Trump makes up facts and lies through his teeth - he deserves to be called on it. And when he complains about "fake news," I find myself laughing out loud. The King of Fake News has no basis for pointing to anything else as "fake news." He needs to get the log out of his eye before he tackles that.

    Bottom line - the person occupying the White House is a chronic, pathological liar. 'Nuff said.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Keep flogging away, that horse just MIGHT get up and run again!

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    The fact-checkers at WaPo invented a whole new category of lie just because of Trump, called a Bottomless Pinocchio: a new rating for a false claim repeated over and over again. Currently fifteen of Trump's lies qualify, being serious lies that have been repeated at least 20 times.

    The more interesting question is what this tells us about his supporters, as the vast majority of the Republican base continues to support him and approve of him. CP falls into the much less common category of someone who voted for Trump and probably will again but doesn't like to take personal responsibility for that and is very skittish about thinking of himself as a Trump supporter. But the polling shows that most Trump voters don't have CP's misgivings and will stick by their glorious leader through thick and thin and endless lies. Although the shutdown does seem to be annoying some of them... I thought the recent “He’s not hurting the people he needs to be” quote from a Trump supporter was pretty much on point about what Trump's base hopes he'll accomplish.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    TCP falls into the much less common category of someone who voted for Trump and probably will again but doesn't like to take personal responsibility for that and is very skittish about thinking of himself as a Trump supporter.
    Um..... CP falls into the category of somebody who voted for Trump to keep Hillary from being POTUS and is very glad Hill is not POTUS and SCOTUS is not Hillary's. Pretty sure I've said that all along.

    CP is not skittish at all about having made that vote, but just wishes Trump would shut up and stop stirring the pot.

    Starlight falls into the category, apparently, of ignorantly and wrongly assigning other people to categories.

    Does Starlight REALLY want to place himself in the same category as JimL endlessly and falsely declaring somebody else a Trump supporter simply because they voted "for" in order to stop somebody else? Come on, Star -- you have a brain. Use it!

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Um..... CP falls into the category of somebody who voted for Trump to keep Hillary from being POTUS and is very glad Hill is not POTUS and SCOTUS is not Hillary's. Pretty sure I've said that all along.

    CP is not skittish at all about having made that vote, but just wishes Trump would shut up and stop stirring the pot.

    Starlight falls into the category, apparently, of ignorantly and wrongly assigning other people to categories.

    Does Starlight REALLY want to place himself in the same category as JimL endlessly and falsely declaring somebody else a Trump supporter simply because they voted "for" in order to stop somebody else? Come on, Star -- you have a brain. Use it!
    It's a brain that led him to support murdering children months after they've been born if their parent's decide they don't want them. Don't expect rationality or anything even approaching decency from it.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    And one of the things I hate about Trump's boorish behavior is that he's bringing out the very worst in Chuck and Nancy. They are like little puppets dancing to Trump's music.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Keep flogging away, that horse just MIGHT get up and run again!
    Oh I think it has about 2 years of life left in it.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Um..... CP falls into the category of somebody who voted for Trump to keep Hillary from being POTUS and is very glad Hill is not POTUS and SCOTUS is not Hillary's. Pretty sure I've said that all along.

    CP is not skittish at all about having made that vote, but just wishes Trump would shut up and stop stirring the pot.

    Starlight falls into the category, apparently, of ignorantly and wrongly assigning other people to categories.

    Does Starlight REALLY want to place himself in the same category as JimL endlessly and falsely declaring somebody else a Trump supporter simply because they voted "for" in order to stop somebody else? Come on, Star -- you have a brain. Use it!
    So - out of curiosity....

    The suspected and actual Democratic field is getting pretty vast. Is there ANY candidate in that field you would vote for - or do you expect to vote for Trump again?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  9. Amen Starlight, Juvenal amen'd this post.
  10. #9
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    CP falls into the category of somebody who voted for Trump to keep Hillary from being POTUS...

    a Trump supporter simply because they voted "for" in order to stop somebody else?
    Most Americans these days are more anti the other party than they are for their own.

    It's how partisan politics works. But in a 2 party system votes cast against the other party are just as good as votes cast for your own party, and the parties and media know this and exploit it. Faux News and the rest of the right-wing media-propaganda bubble exploit this by stirring up hatred against the Dems among their base.

    So at the end of the day it doesn't matter one iota whether you voted because you were against the other party or whether it was because you were for your own one. That's why the US so urgently needs to change to Ranked Choice Voting in each state, so that the partisan 2-party deadlock falls apart and voters can actually vote for parties they approve of.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So - out of curiosity....

    The suspected and actual Democratic field is getting pretty vast. Is there ANY candidate in that field you would vote for - or do you expect to vote for Trump again?
    I'll wait til we see who the candidates are on both sides. You just never know.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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