Kroger banning plastic bags

[Sparko]

Kroger, America's largest supermarket chain, bids farewell to the plastic shopping baghttps://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/1061723002/


I find this to be idiotic. They will be using paper bags instead, and trying to encourage people to use reusable bags (which you have to buy of course)

Paper bags are worse for the environment that plastic ones. The paper industry is like the third largest polluter in the world, including recycling. The chemicals used to pulp wood to make paper are dumped into the environment, not to mention causing even more trees to be destroyed at a time when we need more trees to combat CO2 buildup in the air.


This is just like the straw ban. It is California environmentalism gone wild. These greenies don't even bother to see if their changes are needed or are worse for the environment, it is all optics. Plastic Bad!

[Sparko]

Let me see you do this with paper bags!

[firstfloor]

Here in the even more civilised world we use durable bags that are reused many, many times, canvas is a popular material.

[LeaC]

Disappointing to hear that they're going the paper bag route, as yeah, that's not better for the environment, and also paper bags tend to be less convenient for groceries than plastic - all they're going to do is irritate more people and encourage them to complain. But reusable bags -is- something that stores should be pushing. I hate all the plastic bags that I get when I forget to bring canvas, they end up sitting in a larger bag filled with useless plastic(I would throw them away but I do reuse them sometimes - just not as much as I accumulate them). Given the choice between getting more piles of disgusting plastic or getting paper bags for groceries, I'd rather the stores just forced me to pay for a new cloth bag. At least it'd make it worthwhile to not forget.

[Sparko]

Here in the even more civilised world we use durable bags that are reused many, many times, canvas is a popular material.

The Danes did a study of all of the various types of bags used for groceries, including cotton (canvas) bags to see which had the least impact on the environment. Guess which one does?

The plastic one-use bags.

======
Kroger's Feel-Good Ban On Plastic Bags Is Worse Than Pointlesshttps://www.investors.com/politics/e...n-environment/

The Danish Report: https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publicatio...93614-73-4.pdf

[Cow Poke]

I know that the plastic bags that I get from Lowes and Home Depot seem to degrade pretty quickly. I bought some stuff for a project that got delayed for about 6 months, and the materials were still in the plastic bags. When I picked up the bags by their handles, the stuff just fell out the bottoms of the bags.

We discussed this in another thread - that there's a danger to cattle and livestock because these bags will blow across the landscape, get caught on bushes or barbed wire fences, and cattle and livestock eat them, causing injury and even death.

[Littlejoe]

Disappointing to hear that they're going the paper bag route, as yeah, that's not better for the environment, and also paper bags tend to be less convenient for groceries than plastic - all they're going to do is irritate more people and encourage them to complain. But reusable bags -is- something that stores should be pushing. I hate all the plastic bags that I get when I forget to bring canvas, they end up sitting in a larger bag filled with useless plastic(I would throw them away but I do reuse them sometimes - just not as much as I accumulate them). Given the choice between getting more piles of disgusting plastic or getting paper bags for groceries, I'd rather the stores just forced me to pay for a new cloth bag. At least it'd make it worthwhile to not forget.

We use them as liners in the waste baskets in our bathrooms.... among other things. As bad a paper is, at least it will biodegrade fairly quickly...but yeah, it will be inconvenient to say the least...

[Littlejoe]

I know that the plastic bags that I get from Lowes and Home Depot seem to degrade pretty quickly. I bought some stuff for a project that got delayed for about 6 months, and the materials were still in the plastic bags. When I picked up the bags by their handles, the stuff just fell out the bottoms of the bags.

We discussed this in another thread - that there's a danger to cattle and livestock because these bags will blow across the landscape, get caught on bushes or barbed wire fences, and cattle and livestock eat them, causing injury and even death.

Any idea what causes this plastic deficiency in cows that they will eat anything rubber or plastic? We've had cows peal back the metal door covering in our deer camp trailer and eat the foam insulation inside, eat the rubber and plastic trim off of things and once, (I kid you not) they ate an entire port-a-potty someone had converted into a deer blind...

[Sparko]

We use them as liners in the waste baskets in our bathrooms.... among other things. As bad a paper is, at least it will biodegrade fairly quickly...but yeah, it will be inconvenient to say the least...

except both paper bags and plastic will end up in landfills in which nothing biodegrades.


The Myths of Biodegradation


Myth:
Biodegradable products are the preferred environmental solution because waste simply biodegrades in the landfill.
Reality:
Nothing biodegrades in a landfill because nothing is supposed to.

In the 1991 book Rubbish!: The Archaeology of Garbage, Dr. William Rathje William Rathje's Book Rubbishof the University of Arizon summarized his innovative techniques of excavating modern landfills as a method of observing human social activities. Among his findings: the dry and oxygen-poor conditions found in modern landfills cause organic matter to mummify rather than decompose.

This fact is actually preferred since uncontrolled biodegradation in a landfill can cause ground water pollution, methane gas emissions, and unstable sub-soil conditions. As a result, modern landfills are kept dry and air-tight to prevent biodegradation. Read the EPA website page on methane from landfills.

This fact sheet from Environment Industry Plastics Council (Canada) also gives an excellent overview about why biodegradation in landfills is not a solution.

Composting, on the other hand, is the process of controlled biodegradation outside a landfill.

By carefully controlling the feedstocks (source-separated, mixed organics), and controlling the process (moisture content, oxygen levels), composters transform biogegradable materials into useful products that are used in farming, gardening and soil conservation.

Today, despite national progress on yard waste composting, more than 60 million tons of biodegradable materials (food scraps, wet & soiled paper, leaves and grass) are still being sent to landfills where they will sit in an airless, dry environment to be mummified.

The phrase biodegradable, like recyclable, merely describes the composition of a product. Its potential, not its inherent value. If a product is sent to a landfill, and not disposed of properly in a municipal composting or recycling facility, it is still part of the problem no matter what it's made from.


https://www.bpiworld.org/page-190439


also see: https://www.livescience.com/32786-wh...-landfill.html

I at least keep a lot of my plastic grocery bags and use them at least a couple of times before tossing them. They make good trash bin liners for small cans. Great for carrying lunch to work in. Or storing things.

Paper bags would just be tossed instantly in my household.

[Sparko]

They also make biodegradable plastic bags.

[Cow Poke]

Any idea what causes this plastic deficiency in cows that they will eat anything rubber or plastic? We've had cows peal back the metal door covering in our deer camp trailer and eat the foam insulation inside, eat the rubber and plastic trim off of things and once, (I kid you not) they ate an entire port-a-potty someone had converted into a deer blind...

One of my old-timer cattle buddies just shrugs and says "cows are just trying to get in touch with their inner goat". But, yeah, it's a real problem.

[Sparko]

One of my old-timer cattle buddies just shrugs and says "cows are just trying to get in touch with their inner goat". But, yeah, it's a real problem.

http://www.itla.com/Plastic-Disease

[Sparko]

This plastic bag is actually edible, so it wouldn't hurt cows:

This plastic bag is 100% biodegradablehttps://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...ade-of-plants/

[Cow Poke]

This plastic bag is actually edible, so it wouldn't hurt cows:

This plastic bag is 100% biodegradablehttps://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...ade-of-plants/

You can eat undies, so why not plastic bags?

[seer]

You can eat undies, so why not plastic bags?

Gross, you eat your undies! I can't get past the skid marks!