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Thread: Brexit vote

  1. #221
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvoUK View Post
    It's... complicated.

    The main issue at the moment is 'Brexit Fatigue', as after years of this mess people are sick of hearing about it. Hence the conceit of the Government regarding 'get It done' - which would be fine, except that the withdrawal agreement is only the beginning - after that there'll be the actual trade talks, which is the hard bit. So it's likely to go on for many years yet!
    Totally understandable - thanks.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #222
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    This could have been said about you-know-who:

    Mr Maugham said he was "delighted" with the court's decision.
    "It is a pity to have to say it, but this is not a prime minister who can be trusted to comply with the law. And because he cannot be trusted he must be supervised,"
    Another extension granted, conditioned on deal not passing Parliament.
    Last edited by firstfloor; 10-21-2019 at 06:47 AM.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
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  3. #223
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Speaker stops Boris having another go.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #224
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvoUK View Post
    No 10 to push again for vote on Boris Johnson's deal

    So, the UK Government convened a rare Saturday sitting in Parliament to try to push through Johnson's withdrawal agreement with the threat of 'no deal' hanging over Parliaments head. They allowed very little time for Parliamentarians to look through the detail of the new withdrawal agreement, and refused to look into/publish any potential impact assessments of this deal coming into force.

    Parliament then voted 306 to 322 in favour of an amendment to postpone the vote on the new withdrawal agreement until parliament had an opportunity to look at the details and scrutinise it properly, something the Government wished to avoid.

    As the deadline to request an extension from the EU was 11pm on Saturday night due to the Benn Act, Johnson was forced by law to send a letter to the EU requesting an extension. This he did, sending an unsigned photocopy requesting an extension, along with a separate signed letter explaining that he does not think the EU should grant it. They are now also looking into whether or not this in fact goes against the wording or spirit of the Benn act, though it is highly unlikely he'll be held to legal account for it.


    Along with creating a border in the Irish Sea, this new withdrawal agreement takes protections of workers rights etc. out of the legally binding text, and instead into the non-legally binding 'political declaration', which is essentially a 'wish list' at best. This fact alone means that most Labour MPs would not be able to vote in favour of it, even if it didn't also go against previous promises by this and previous UK Governments not to have a border in Ireland or the Irish Sea.
    Um, this would be the fourth extension, right? After 3 years, parliament still hasn't passed anything but roadblock legislation - what good does giving them even more time actually do?

    Outside looking in, it looks like parliament is dragging its heels in hopes that if they delay long enough a miracle will occur and they can repeal Art. 50 without political consequence.


  5. #225
    tWebber EvoUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Um, this would be the fourth extension, right? After 3 years, parliament still hasn't passed anything but roadblock legislation - what good does giving them even more time actually do?

    Outside looking in, it looks like parliament is dragging its heels in hopes that if they delay long enough a miracle will occur and they can repeal Art. 50 without political consequence.

    Given that none of the leave campaign promises were remotely true, logically parliament should be pushing for a second referendum with remain vs what leave actually looks like vs the fantasies pushed in 2016. Simply revoking article 50 at this point- even though it is the only sane option given the appalling deals they've managed to strike since given that reality doesn't necessarily adhere to fantasy in the real world- would probably do more harm than good.

    Unfortunately parliament has shown itself to be better at saying what it doesn't want than what it does want, ironically actually reflecting the mood of the country quite aptly.

  6. #226
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvoUK View Post
    Given that none of the leave campaign promises were remotely true, logically parliament should be pushing for a second referendum with remain vs what leave actually looks like vs the fantasies pushed in 2016. Simply revoking article 50 at this point- even though it is the only sane option given the appalling deals they've managed to strike since given that reality doesn't necessarily adhere to fantasy in the real world- would probably do more harm than good.

    Unfortunately parliament has shown itself to be better at saying what it doesn't want than what it does want, ironically actually reflecting the mood of the country quite aptly.


    I'm gonna take that as kinda yes. Mostly because of the last bit - and I don't want to ask for clarification since I don't wanna make you mad... Madder? Mad at me?

    Whichever, that's the first time I've ever seen you lose coherence... so unless that was just a typo, I'll just run away now...


  7. #227
    tWebber EvoUK's Avatar
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    Yes it is... Wearying.

  8. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  9. #228
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    The drama continues:
    Boris Johnson faces the prospect of being forced to accept a Brexit delay after MPs voted down his attempt to ram his deal through the Commons.

    The prime minister this evening lost a vote on a timetable that would have enabled him to push his agreement through the house in three days. MPs rejected his strategy by 322 to 308.
    Boris is being very disrespectful considering he has no majority.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  10. #229
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    The drama continues:


    Boris is being very disrespectful considering he has no majority.
    They didn't want an election.

  11. #230
    tWebber EvoUK's Avatar
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    We're in the odd position of the Government likely losing a second referendum as 'leaving' in reality looks nothing like what was promised, but winning a general election as Corbyn is seen as so toxic politically. By winning a general election they'll then claim they have the mandate for any hard brexit which wasn't promised in the 2016 referendum, but they'll fight to the death to avoid an actual vote on the brexit withdrawal agreement.

    As a quick explanation as to why they'd prefer an election over a referendum, it comes down to how the votes are counted. In a referendum, my vote would be counted. In an election, I am in a Conservative safe seat, so my vote wouldn't go against the brexit deal like it would do otherwise. This is why the government is pushing so hard for an election and not for a referendum as this will be repeated across the country.

  12. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

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