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Thread: Brexit vote

  1. #101
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Need some red hats that say MUKGA
    Oh yes - red hats. Red hats are good for curing everything. They are the panacea for all ills ... or should that be "placebo"?
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  2. #102
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Oh yes - red hats. Red hats are good for curing everything. They are the panacea for all ills ... or should that be "placebo"?
    Well you can't wear them down under because they would keep falling off into the sky.

  3. #103
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    The situation remains very fluid:

    Monday, 1 April: MPs hold another set of votes on Brexit options to see if they can agree on a way forward.

    Wednesday, 3 April: Potentially another round of so-called "indicative votes".

    Wednesday, 10 April: Emergency summit of EU leaders to consider any UK request for further extension.

    Friday, 12 April: Brexit day, if UK does not seek/EU does not grant further delay.
    - BBC
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #104
    tWebber EvoUK's Avatar
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    Vote leave found guilty of illegal overspending during referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Vote Leave had been “outspent” by Remain and that it had "destroyed some of the evidential basis people are asking for" after deleting its data.

    [...]

    It comes after the Electoral Commission confirmed on Friday that Vote Leave had dropped its appeal against a £61,000 fine for electoral spending offences during the EU referendum.
    So the day we were due to leave the EU, Boris Johnson and others quietly drop the defense that they broke electoral law and overspent during the referendum.

    Now, normally this would essentially make the whole thing void and they'd have to do it again, or at least start proceedings to do so. However they can't as it is an advisory referendum and thus government and Parliament can ignore it should they choose.

    However they can't, as it is politically binding, if not actually binding by law. In other words, the muppets in charge assumed they'd win (both leave and remain were managed by the Tories) and so said they'd follow through with whatever the public voted for, forgetting that the public may decide to stick the middle finger up at the government for years of oppressive austerity measures.

    So the government and parliament have to stick to an illegal advisory referendum and knowingly vote for something they know to be hugely damaging to the country- both politically and economically- otherwise they'd annoy a selection of the electorate who believed years of lies by a right wing press and the charlatans who lied to them throughout the campaign.

    I'm so proud right now.

  5. #105
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    The deadlock continues;

    The Speaker John Bercow picked four of the eight amendments put forward for debate:
    ■ Motion C: Committing the government to negotiating "a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU" as part of any Brexit deal - proposed by Tory former chancellor Ken Clarke
    ■ Motion D: Referred to as Common Market 2.0, this option would mean joining the European Free Trade Association and European Economic Area - proposed by Tory MP Nick Boles
    ■ Motion E: This is for a confirmatory referendum, giving the public a vote to approve any Brexit deal passed by Parliament before it can be implemented - proposed by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson
    ■ Motion G: The motion aims to prevent the UK leaving without a deal, including a vote on whether to revoke Article 50 - stopping Brexit - if the EU does not agree to an extension - proposed by the SNP's Joanna Cherry
    He did not choose motions calling for a unilateral exit to the backstop, to leave on 12 April without a deal, to hold a referendum in the case of no-deal or to rejoin the European Free Trade Association.
    -BBC
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  6. #106
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    From an outsider's perspective... it seems to me that the MP's simply don't want Brexit and will do whatever they need to in order to sabotage what was voted upon by the people...


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  7. #107
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    From an outsider's perspective... it seems to me that the MP's simply don't want Brexit and will do whatever they need to in order to sabotage what was voted upon by the people...
    Yeah, but that just seems so odd to me - like they'd have more power as their own entity, rather than being subservient (in a sense) to a bigger conglomerate. (But, then again, I'm an American Exceptionalist)
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #108
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    From an outsider's perspective... it seems to me that the MP's simply don't want Brexit and will do whatever they need to in order to sabotage what was voted upon by the people...
    Well, the people spoke, and then they spoke again ...

    Negotiating with a 27-member entity is tough. By nature, committees are slow. The Leavers and arch-Leavers in May’s caucus got restive, and she panicked. Lacking even the outline of a deal, she announced in October 2016 that she would trigger the two-year process to quit the EU no later than the end of the first quarter of 2017. On March 29, 2017, she honored her promise.

    To strengthen her hand against the Leavers and arch-Leavers in her caucus, May called for elections for June 2017. She asked the voters for a mandate for “strong and stable leadership.” Instead, they took away her parliamentary majority. She lost 13 seats, and found herself and her government more dependent on marginal members of Parliament than ever before.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...d-idea/584524/

    I don't think the people will have another chance to get what they want ... to remain in the EU.

    A petition calling for the UK to stay in the EU, which has amassed more than six million signatures, has been debated in Parliament.

    The petition, demanding Article 50 be revoked, is the most popular since the e-petitions site launched.

    Two other petitions were debated in the Westminster Hall chamber.

    One, demanding a new referendum, has over 180,000 signatures. The other, urging MPs to "honour the referendum result", has more than 170,000.

    The government has said it will not revoke Article 50 and it is working to deliver a deal that "ensures the UK leaves the EU".
    - BBC
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  9. #109
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    so isn't the firstfloor actually the second floor of a building over in europe?

  10. #110
    tWebber EvoUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    From an outsider's perspective... it seems to me that the MP's simply don't want Brexit and will do whatever they need to in order to sabotage what was voted upon by the people...
    In fairness to some MPs, the public were promised the undeliverable. They were promised sunlit uplands and easy trade deals etc etc - none of which was ever realisitc (most of it bonkers actually), and this has been shown to be the case in the last few year. A new vote is actually the only way through this impasse.

    We should have as many votes as there are good reasons for holding them.

    Losing - obviously - is not a good reason.

    An unsafe result (which would have been struck down by the courts if it hadn't been advisory-only) is an excellent reason. Everybody is ignoring this fact but there is no valid mandate for Brexit.

    Another (possibly) good reason is that a tiny majority doesn't look very reliable three years on with so much more new information. The EU did not cave. Trade deals will not be easy and they will not be as good as the ones we could have with the clout of the EU behind us. Countries like the US, Japan & China are eagerly lining up to exploit our vulnerability. So many glib promises have been shown to be false. Do people still feel the same way? Unlikely.

    None of the options on the table now were being discussed in 2016, so there's no democratic mandate for any of them.

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