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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    But he TRIES so HARD!
    I guess he deserves a trophy.


    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Great, then you can't claim that the SBC was wrong for supporting slavery. Under your values of morality, that they are just relative subjective values that are true for each society, there was nothing wrong with having slaves. You just don't like it now because of your relative values, but that doesn't make what the SBC did wrong, because there is no right and wrong.

      .
      No. YOU can’t say that the SBC was wrong for supporting slavery. Because many slavers justified slave ownership and subsequent segregationist Jim Crow Laws, by appealing to the Word of God, i.e. your source of eternally objective morality, e.g. Titus 2. 9-10.

      Morality is based upon the social values of the day and scripture has historically been adapted to conform to those values. This was true of the Confederate slavers just as it has the case throughout Judeo/Christian history.

      There is NO objective morality and you have not demonstrated otherwise.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        What is wrong with letting kids sit in cages on the border Chuck? If morality is just a relative value as Tassman says, then who cares?
        Society cares. It has its own moral code, i.e. firm rules of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. And yes, these rules do change over time, they are demonstrably not absolute or eternal.

        During the Industrial Revolution it was accepted and commonplace for children to work long hours in dangerous factory conditions. Something that would not be tolerated in the developed world today. And it is equally intolerable for children to be locked in cages on the border in today’s world.

        Where is the objective moral code that justifies Trump, whom Evangelicals support, in doing this?
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          No. YOU can’t say that the SBC was wrong for supporting slavery.
          Neither can you or anyone else since the SBC never took a position in defense of slavery. What you had were individual members, including some leaders, who supported slavery.

          And what percent of the large number of blacks who were in the SBC do you think supported slavery?

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            No. YOU can’t say that the SBC was wrong for supporting slavery. Because many slavers justified slave ownership and subsequent segregationist Jim Crow Laws, by appealing to the Word of God, i.e. your source of eternally objective morality, e.g. Titus 2. 9-10.
            Can you please post a link to any document where the SBC officially came out in support of slavery?

            And I'm sure it is just a coincidence that virtually every supporter of slavery was a Democrat. That should come as no surprise since the party that founded the Ku Klux Klan is still working hard today to keep blacks on their plantation.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Can you please post a link to any document where the SBC officially came out in support of slavery?
              The SBC wouldn’t exist except for slavery. There was sufficient support for slave ownership to enable the creation of the Southern Baptist Convention. It couldn’t have happened without the approval of the majority.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                The SBC wouldn’t exist except for slavery.
                The SBC wouldn't exist if the northern churches hadn't precluded the southern churches from sending missionaries due to the fact that the missionaries had owned slaves, just like so many people in government at that time.

                There was sufficient support for slave ownership to enable the creation of the Southern Baptist Convention. It couldn’t have happened without the approval of the majority.
                You are such a transparent dishonest hypocrite, having a total different standard for ILGA's inclusion of NAMBLA. It just shows what a hate-filled bigot you are.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  No. YOU can’t say that the SBC was wrong for supporting slavery. Because many slavers justified slave ownership and subsequent segregationist Jim Crow Laws, by appealing to the Word of God, i.e. your source of eternally objective morality, e.g. Titus 2. 9-10.

                  Morality is based upon the social values of the day and scripture has historically been adapted to conform to those values. This was true of the Confederate slavers just as it has the case throughout Judeo/Christian history.

                  There is NO objective morality and you have not demonstrated otherwise.
                  If morals are subjective, then there is nothing wrong with slavery as long as that society thinks there is nothing wrong with it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    If something is objectively true then it doesn't matter what your excuse is, it means it is absolutely true for everyone, everywhere at all times. Like the world being round. That is objectively true. Even when everyone believed it was flat. Even before there were people. And it will be true even if everyone were to die.
                    Comprehension, Sparko, comprehension. That's what I said, but being objectively true doesn't mean that they are absolute objective realities such as divine laws. the moral against rape being in the best interests of human society can be objectively true without being divine law. Just like having a speed limit on the highway needn't be divine law in order to be objectively in our collective best interests.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Comprehension, Sparko, comprehension. That's what I said, but being objectively true doesn't mean that they are absolute objective realities such as divine laws. the moral against rape being in the best interests of human society can be objectively true without being divine law. Just like having a speed limit on the highway needn't be divine law in order to be objectively in our collective best interests.
                      So objective doesn't mean objective? Got it.

                      Stop smoking the wacky weed Jimmy.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        So objective doesn't mean objective? Got it.

                        Stop smoking the wacky weed Jimmy.
                        No, don't you get it? Morality is objective when you want it to be, and subjective when you want to be. It's a win/win.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          If morals are subjective, then there is nothing wrong with slavery as long as that society thinks there is nothing wrong with it.
                          Correct. And if people get the idea that their God given objective standards allow for slavery, then they fail to see that there is something wrong with that as well.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            Correct. And if people get the idea that their God given objective standards allow for slavery, then they fail to see that there is something wrong with that as well.
                            If morals are objective and slavery is wrong, then they would be wrong. But under Tassman's theory of morality, they would be right.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              If morals are objective and slavery is wrong, then they would be wrong. But under Tassman's theory of morality, they would be right.
                              You seem to be under the odd understanding that morals, or rules, need have objective realities in and of themselves in order that they have any value. I gave you an example above of a law of which its being "good" can be objectively true, while as a law in and of itself it has no reality. Speed limits on highways are an objective "good" for human communities, but speed limits have no objective reality in their own right. Moral laws are no different, the objectivity concerning them is in whether they serve the best interests of the community. And like speed limits, though not objective realities in their own right, they are not divine laws, the "good" with respect to morals, have nothing to do with whether you subjectively agree with them or not.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                The SBC wouldn't exist if the northern churches hadn't precluded the southern churches from sending missionaries due to the fact that the missionaries had owned slaves,
                                All the Southern Churches had to do was renounce slave ownership and they could have missionized to their heart’s content and remain with the Northern Churches. But they preferred to start a new Church and keep their slaves.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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