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Thread: So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

  1. #1491
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Giving examples of Christians who feel/felt the need to follow every law and command in the Old Testament to the very letter does not in any way show that MM is trying to explain away anything at all.
    That is precisely what it is showing MM to be doing. He is claiming to follow OT Law re stoning bad people to death by arguing that he still follows that law (something you say he shouldn’t do because he is “not part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people”) by locking them up rather than stoning them to death. In short, he is "explaining away" God’s unacceptably brutal commandment by modifying it to suit modern-day standards of punishment.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  2. #1492
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    That is precisely what it is showing MM to be doing. He is claiming to follow OT Law re stoning bad people to death by arguing that he still follows that law (something you say he shouldn’t do because he is “not part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people”) by locking them up rather than stoning them to death.


    No, that's not what he's doing at all.

  3. Amen MaxVel amen'd this post.
  4. #1493
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post

    No, that's not what he's doing at all.
    Whatever.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #1494
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Whatever.


    MM never claimed to be personally following the biblical ethic behind the death penalty, like you're claiming he was doing.


    I'm the one who should be sighing here.

  6. Amen MaxVel, Cow Poke, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  7. #1495
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Just as it is “good and right” for our society to NOT to kill witches, own slaves, segregate blacks, deny female emancipation and deny LGBT rights. It’s just as subjective. It’s just the social mores of the day evolving and scripture being adjusted to justify them...as always.
    So your objection to what happened in the bible is pure nonsense according to your own standards.

  8. #1496
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So your objection to what happened in the bible is pure nonsense according to your own standards.
    My “standards” are dictated by community values and these values change over time. However, YOUR standards are dictated by ‘divinely revealed’ objective morality, which are NOT supposed to change; they are eternal. This makes it a tad awkward for you when the community values change.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  9. #1497
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    My “standards” are dictated by community values and these values change over time. However, YOUR standards are dictated by ‘divinely revealed’ objective morality, which are NOT supposed to change; they are eternal. This makes it a tad awkward for you when the community values change.
    So your standards are merely social preferences that can change and mean nothing ultimately. They are like fashion. Today we like straight legged bluejeans and in the 1970s they liked bell bottoms. Neither is better or worse than the other, so if you were to claim that people who owned slave were evil scum, it would make as much sense as you claiming that people who wore bell bottoms were evil scum.

  10. Amen MaxVel, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #1498
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So your standards are merely social preferences that can change and mean nothing ultimately. They are like fashion. Today we like straight legged bluejeans and in the 1970s they liked bell bottoms. Neither is better or worse than the other, so if you were to claim that people who owned slave were evil scum, it would make as much sense as you claiming that people who wore bell bottoms were evil scum.
    Wrong. I think you guys are being willfully ignorant. Morals are not like fashion where neither is better or worse, they are like evolution wherein what is better survives. That doesn't make morals absolute in a supernatural sense. There is nothing about behaviors best suited for social survival that necessitates a divine source.

  12. #1499
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Wrong. I think you guys are being willfully ignorant. Morals are not like fashion where neither is better or worse, they are like evolution wherein what is better survives. That doesn't make morals absolute in a supernatural sense. There is nothing about behaviors best suited for social survival that necessitates a divine source.
    Why are you answering for Tassman, Jimothy? You and he don't have the same view of morals. You believe in some objective value you call "better" - Tassman believes only in changing morals that flow with society, none of which are better or worse than any other. So how about you stick to the posts where I tell you how stupid you are for believing in an objective standard of "good" while claiming morals are relative, and not butt in when I am talking to Tassman who at least has a coherant view of morality, even though it is wrong?

  13. #1500
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Why are you answering for Tassman, Jimothy? You and he don't have the same view of morals. You believe in some objective value you call "better" - Tassman believes only in changing morals that flow with society, none of which are better or worse than any other. So how about you stick to the posts where I tell you how stupid you are for believing in an objective standard of "good" while claiming morals are relative, and not butt in when I am talking to Tassman who at least has a coherant view of morality, even though it is wrong?
    And those changing morals which flow with society, change with the times, don't just change willy nilly, they change for "good reasons".

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