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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Laws are based on social values Tassman. They are for the most part, legislating moral codes and values.
    Yes indeed. As I’ve been saying all along. Laws are based upon the social values of the day and legislated according to those values. Historically, social values have changed considerably over the millennia and the Law has changed to reflect these changes.

    And here you are showing that you don't agree with the law.
    Do you agree with the R v W Law? I do.

    You agree with "abortion on demand"
    I didn’t say I agreed with abortion on demand, but effectively that’s the situation in Sydney, NSW despite your original claim to the contrary. Nevertheless, the vast majority of abortions occur during the first trimester, which is in line with most of the Western world and the position to which I hold.
    Last edited by Tassman; 06-18-2019, 11:31 PM.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Yes indeed. As I’ve been saying all along. Laws are based upon the social values of the day and legislated according to those values. Historically, social values have changed considerably over the millennia and the Law has changed to reflect these changes.



      Do you agree with the R v W Law? I do.



      I didn’t say I agreed with abortion on demand, but effectively that’s the situation in Sydney, NSW despite your original claim to the contrary. Nevertheless, the vast majority of abortions occur during the first trimester, which is in line with most of the Western world and the position to which I hold.
      You disagree with the law Tassy, so you are not following your societies morals. Many people do this. Which shows that society doesn't set the morals. Otherwise people living in that society would agree with them. You wouldn't have half of the society claiming that abortion was immoral. Morals are not set by society. Morals exist separate from society and societies adopt various morals, sometimes getting it right, sometimes getting it wrong. Because there IS an objective right and wrong. And you believe in it too, even if you pretend not to.

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      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Do you agree with the R v W Law? I do.
        Roe v. Wade is an interpretation of law, not a law itself.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          You disagree with the law Tassy, so you are not following your societies morals. Many people do this. Which shows that society doesn't set the morals. Otherwise people living in that society would agree with them. You wouldn't have half of the society claiming that abortion was immoral. Morals are not set by society. Morals exist separate from society and societies adopt various morals, sometimes getting it right, sometimes getting it wrong. Because there IS an objective right and wrong. And you believe in it too, even if you pretend not to.
          You're contradicting yourself, Sparko. If societies adopt certain morals, then those morals are set by society. They may be either the right way or the wrong way to go in the interests of that society, but that doesn't mean that the right way, the moral thing to do, has some objective reality in its own right.

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          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            You're contradicting yourself, Sparko. If societies adopt certain morals, then those morals are set by society.
            No dumbass. they have to exist before they can be adopted.

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              No dumbass. they have to exist before they can be adopted.
              No they don't, not in reality. You can make up any moral rule you want, that doesn't mean it has to have some actual existence in its own right.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                No they don't, not in reality. You can make up any moral rule you want, that doesn't mean it has to have some actual existence in its own right.
                in order to ADOPT something it has to exist already, dummy.

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                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  in order to ADOPT something it has to exist already, dummy.
                  Bless his heart.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Bless his heart.
                    Sometimes I think English is a second language to JimL.

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                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Sometimes I think English is a second language to JimL.
                      Sometimes I think 'thinking' is a foreign concept to JimL.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        You disagree with the law Tassy, so you are not following your societies morals. Many people do this. Which shows that society doesn't set the morals.
                        Of course, society “sets the morals” where else would they come from?

                        Otherwise people living in that society would agree with them. You wouldn't have half of the society claiming that abortion was immoral. Morals are not set by society.
                        If the majority of society want a law changed then, in our society, it will be changed. This has happened numerous times over the course of human history. E.g.: “Two-thirds of Americans want Roe v. Wade left in place, and most who hold that view would be disappointed or angry if the ruling were to be overturned someday”.

                        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majorit...ws-poll-finds/

                        Morals exist separate from society and societies adopt various morals, sometimes getting it right, sometimes getting it wrong. Because there IS an objective right and wrong. And you believe in it too, even if you pretend not to.
                        Morals do NOT “exist separate from society”, they reflect the social values of society and are legislated accordingly.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          in order to ADOPT something it has to exist already, dummy.
                          Well, semantically speaking, if that's the way you want to use the term. But that's just the way you choose to use the term because you believe that morals have objective existence. A subjective idea has existence in that sense, and you can adopt a subjective idea to live by, but that doesn't mean that the subjective idea has any real existence in its own right.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Of course, society “sets the morals” where else would they come from?



                            If the majority of society want a law changed then, in our society, it will be changed. This has happened numerous times over the course of human history. E.g.: “Two-thirds of Americans want Roe v. Wade left in place, and most who hold that view would be disappointed or angry if the ruling were to be overturned someday”.

                            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majorit...ws-poll-finds/



                            Morals do NOT “exist separate from society”, they reflect the social values of society and are legislated accordingly.
                            So if Australia decided to outlaw abortion, then you would then agree that abortions are immoral?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Well, semantically speaking, if that's the way you want to use the term. But that's just the way you choose to use the term because you believe that morals have objective existence. A subjective idea has existence in that sense, and you can adopt a subjective idea to live by, but that doesn't mean that the subjective idea has any real existence in its own right.
                              Is that your objective opinion?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                So if Australia decided to outlaw abortion, then you would then agree that abortions are immoral?
                                This is an invalid hypothetical, because it does not reflect the social values of society. The majority of people in Australia do not think that first trimester abortion is immoral. The same applies in the US.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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