So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

[Cow Poke]

Oh, I thought the Duggar family, with its submissive, compliant wife was championed by Evangelicals like you…well at least until that unfortunate incest incident.

Why do you get so many things so profoundly wrong, Tass?

[Cow Poke]

No. The sole meaning of 'submission’, is [I]“the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person”.

So, in your failed attempt to force a definition of an English word on the Greek text, how would you handle v 21, using your silly attempt at exegesis....

21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Sparko and I are Christians, Paul encourages us to "submit to each other" out of reverence for Christ.

Which one of us is "yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person"? Is it Sparko? Me? Both of us?

[Tassman]

So, in your failed attempt to force a definition of an English word on the Greek text, how would you handle v 21, using your silly attempt at exegesis....

You have not provided an alternative definition of “submit”.

21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Sparko and I are Christians, Paul encourages us to "submit to each other" out of reverence for Christ.

Which one of us is "yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person"? Is it Sparko? Me? Both of us?

…and your wives?

[Cow Poke]

You have not provided an alternative definition of “submit”.

I provided the CONTEXT - Chapter 5 in its entirety - instead of letting you get away with ripping a couple verses out of context.

[Cow Poke]

…and your wives?

Sparko's not married, and I love mine, thanks for asking? Yours?

[Tassman]

Sparko's not married, and I love mine, thanks for asking? Yours?

I loved my first wife dearly, as I do our beautiful grown-up daughter. And my current Thai wife of 15 years I also love. In both instances I have treated them with the same respect I try to show all people, male and female. This as opposed to expecting 'submission' from women as demanded in scripture...a hangover from the patriarchal era.

[Cow Poke]

I loved my first wife dearly, as I do our beautiful grown-up daughter. And my current Thai wife of 15 years I also love. In both instances I have treated them with the same respect I try to show all people, male and female. This as opposed to expecting 'submission' from women as demanded in scripture...a hangover from the patriarchal era.

Gosh, Tass - you ONLY treat them with the same respect you try to show all people? My wife is WAY more special than that!

[Tassman]

Gosh, Tass - you ONLY treat them with the same respect you try to show all people? My wife is WAY more special than that!

Good point. (Gulp)

I hope your wife's knee is much better.

[Mountain Man]

I loved my first wife dearly, as I do our beautiful grown-up daughter. And my current Thai wife of 15 years I also love. In both instances I have treated them with the same respect I try to show all people, male and female. This as opposed to expecting 'submission' from women as demanded in scripture...a hangover from the patriarchal era.

And has your wife ever sought your permission to make a purchase? Or informed you that she's going out with friends for the evening? Because that's an act of submission and is exactly the sort of thing Paul is talking about.

Or does she just do whatever, and you're sitting at home wondering where she's off to and why your bank account is empty?

[Sparko]

So, why don’t women generally hold car doors open for men, or usher men out of the elevator ahead of them etc?

because they are toxic!

[lilpixieofterror]

I loved my first wife dearly, as I do our beautiful grown-up daughter. And my current Thai wife of 15 years I also love. In both instances I have treated them with the same respect I try to show all people, male and female. This as opposed to expecting 'submission' from women as demanded in scripture...a hangover from the patriarchal era.

Interesting since both my grandmothers were pretty devout in their faith and didn’t have the ‘submissive’ attitude you describe. It’s almost as if you’re trying to pretend some Christians that do practice that are a rep for all Christians.

[lilpixieofterror]

And has your wife ever sought your permission to make a purchase? Or informed you that she's going out with friends for the evening? Because that's an act of submission and is exactly the sort of thing Paul is talking about.

Or does she just do whatever, and you're sitting at home wondering where she's off to and why your bank account is empty?

I find these things are decisions each couple needs to make. I find with kids takes more planning and informing for our evening activities than without does. The same I find true with buying decisions. Set limits for each other and don’t go over those limits without permission from the other. Are these all ‘acts of submission’ sure, but they are not nor should be one way.

[Cow Poke]

Good point. (Gulp)

I hope your wife's knee is much better.

Thanks, Tass. She is doing REALLY well, and we actually walked down to the mailbox without walkers or canes or... she just walked!

[Mountain Man]

I find these things are decisions each couple needs to make. I find with kids takes more planning and informing for our evening activities than without does. The same I find true with buying decisions. Set limits for each other and don’t go over those limits without permission from the other. Are these all ‘acts of submission’ sure, but they are not nor should be one way.

I never said that it should be one way. I'm simply countering Tass' notion that "submission" can only happen in the form of groveling subservience. A wife who asks her husband, "Is it OK if I buy a new laptop?" is showing submission. A husband who says, "Certainly. Let's work out a budget to make it happen," is showing love and respect.

[Cow Poke]

I find these things are decisions each couple needs to make. I find with kids takes more planning and informing for our evening activities than without does. The same I find true with buying decisions. Set limits for each other and don’t go over those limits without permission from the other. Are these all ‘acts of submission’ sure, but they are not nor should be one way.

When things go bump in the night, my wife ALWAYS submits to me and allows me to go investigate. Same when there's a snake or scorpion.