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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    And yet among Evangelicals this seems to translate as a woman being created as a helper to her husband, the bearer of children, and keeper at home. Is this what you believe to be the divinely ordained sphere of dominion for a wife, i.e. keeping to the household and that which is connected with the home and children under the authority of her husband. This has been the traditional view in Patriarchal societies as we see depicted in the OT and creeping over into the NT, but our society has moved on since then; is this a 'bad thing' in your view? Are women not entitled to pursue productive, fulfilling careers, or is this just the man's divinely ordained sphere of dominion?
    Look up Deborah in Judges and Phoebe in Romans in the bible.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      And yet among Evangelicals this seems to translate as a woman being created as a helper to her husband, the bearer of children, and keeper at home.
      Well, after all, you yourself said...

      Tassman: I think we can agree that young children and babies fare better with their mothers
      - and - I think there’s little doubt that as a rule young children and babies fare better with their mothers


      When did you become such a glaring anti-woman bigot to suggest that they alone should be a helper to their husbands, bear him children, and take care of them?

      See what I did there, Tass? I kinda weaponized your own statement to make it sound like it's a bad thing for a mother to take care of her children.

      Is this what you believe to be the divinely ordained sphere of dominion for a wife,....
      I just deleted the rest of your post because it's so profoundly ignorant and misguided as to not be worthy of a rebuttal. A PREbuttal, perhaps, but not a rebuttal.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Look up Deborah in Judges and Phoebe in Romans in the bible.
        And Ruth who is given an entire book.

        I also like to point to Mary the mother of Jesus who was given what I consider to be the greatest honor in all of human history: to give birth to the Messiah. Remember, it was well within God's power to create Jesus' body from the dust of the ground and have Joseph discover the baby in a burning bush or something. But instead God gave this unique honor to Mary.
        Last edited by Mountain Man; 02-21-2019, 08:34 AM.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          And yet among Evangelicals this seems to translate as a woman being created as a helper to her husband, the bearer of children, and keeper at home. Is this what you believe to be the divinely ordained sphere of dominion for a wife, i.e. keeping to the household and that which is connected with the home and children under the authority of her husband. This has been the traditional view in Patriarchal societies as we see depicted in the OT and creeping over into the NT, but our society has moved on since then; is this a 'bad thing' in your view? Are women not entitled to pursue productive, fulfilling careers, or is this just the man's divinely ordained sphere of dominion?

          Where does the Ephesians passage say anything about this?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Joel View Post

            Where does the Ephesians passage say anything about this?
            It's right there in the ACB [Anti-Christian Bigot] Version.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23
              For
              the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church:
              and
              he is the saviour of the body. 24
              Therefore
              as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
              25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it ...

              Reading the English, it is all but impossible to understand "husband is the head of the wife" and
              "Christ is the head of the church" as meaning anything other than "husband" and "Christ" are
              superior authorities. That is complicated further by the simple fact that Christ IS
              the superior authority over the church. However, "head" is translated from the Koine Greek,
              "kephalé" - and kephalé is never used to denote a superior authority.
              http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...=greek#lexicon
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Look up Deborah in Judges and Phoebe in Romans in the bible.
                And then of course - there is Junia. Translators of a certain Politically Correct Version of the Bible spent some 80 years trying to turn Junia into a male before finally submitting to the wealth of attestation that Junia was a woman in the Early Church Fathers' writings (and zero, nil, nothing to the contrary**). The translations are few that have a correct reading of the relevant passage. Most make it not that Andronicus and Junia were apostles, but that they were counted as noteworthy by (or well known to) the apostles.
                ** Well (so tis said) there was ONE early Church father who referred to Junia as a man, but he also referred to Phoebe as a man.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Are women not entitled to pursue productive, fulfilling careers, or is this just the man's divinely ordained sphere of dominion?

                  13 ​​​​​​​She obtains wool and flax,
                  and she is pleased to work with her hands.
                  14 ​​​​​​​She is like the merchant ships;
                  she brings her food from afar.
                  15 ​​​​​​​She also gets up while it is still night,
                  and provides food for her household and a portion to her female servants.
                  16 ​​​​​​​She considers a field and buys it;
                  from her own income she plants a vineyard.
                  17 ​​​​​​​She begins her work vigorously,
                  and she strengthens her arms.
                  18 ​​​​​​​She knows that her merchandise is good,
                  and her lamp does not go out in the night.
                  19 ​​​​​​​Her hands take hold of the distaff,
                  and her hands grasp the spindle.
                  20 ​​​​​​​She extends her hand to the poor,
                  and reaches out her hand to the needy.
                  21 ​​​​​​​She is not afraid of the snow for her household,
                  for all of her household are clothed with scarlet.
                  22 ​​​​​​​She makes for herself coverlets;
                  her clothing is fine linen and purple.

                  Of course, the feminist cadre like to call all this an example of the workings of Biblical misogynistic patriarchy.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Well, after all, you yourself said...

                    Tassman: I think we can agree that young children and babies fare better with their mothers
                    - and - I think there’s little doubt that as a rule young children and babies fare better with their mothers


                    When did you become such a glaring anti-woman bigot to suggest that they alone should be a helper to their husbands, bear him children, and take care of them?

                    See what I did there, Tass? I kinda weaponized your own statement to make it sound like it's a bad thing for a mother to take care of her children.
                    You didn’t "weaponize" my statement. It’s a good thing for a mother to take care of her children. It is not a “good thing” that this is deemed her only role in life, as seems to be assumed by many on your side of the fence. She is entitled to a career and a life outside of the home just as men are, which is why it is essential that she get fully paid maternity leave so she can do both.

                    I just deleted the rest of your post because it's so profoundly ignorant and misguided as to not be worthy of a rebuttal. A PREbuttal, perhaps, but not a rebuttal.
                    If you think this then it’s up to you to SHOW in what way my post is “so profoundly ignorant and misguided”, otherwise it will be assumed that you are unable to provide a rebuttal.
                    Last edited by Tassman; 02-22-2019, 01:11 AM.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Joel View Post
                      Where does the Ephesians passage say anything about this?
                      Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Finally, Tassman shows some intelligence and wisdom in a post:

                        ScreenHunter_.jpg

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                          Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
                          You seem pretty ignorant of history in general.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Today's elevator story:

                            I decided to listen to Tassman, so today I held the elevator door for a man [well he appeared to be male but I didn't inquire as to his preferred gender] entering the elevator. He said, "Wow, thanks so much!" I said, "You're welcome!" and we rode down. We stopped a couple of floors below and a woman got on [again the person appeared to be female but I didn't inquire].

                            Trying not to be toxic, we stood our ground and made the woman move to the back of the elevator. When we reached the ground floor, the other man, said "After you, I insist!" to me, and I exited the elevator first, with him second and the woman in the back exiting last. I bid the gentleman "Have a good day, sir!" and he did the same to me. The woman we ignored.

                            Ah it feels so good to be non-toxic! I should have become a liberal long ago!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
                              As far as I can tell, the Christian married guys I know here would generally agree with the following premise: "When we got married, we agreed that the husband would make the major decisions, and the wife could make the minor decisions.... There hasn't been a major decision yet."
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                You didn’t "weaponize" my statement. It’s a good thing for a mother to take care of her children.
                                Amen!!!!

                                It is not a “good thing” that this is deemed her only role in life,
                                And only a MORON would get that from anything I said.

                                as seems to be assumed by many on your side of the fence.
                                NOBODY on "my side of the fence" believes that.

                                She is entitled to a career and a life outside of the home just as men are, which is why it is essential that she get fully paid maternity leave so she can do both.
                                Wow, you're just coming to that conclusion? And how GENEROUS of you to allow that!

                                If you think this then it’s up to you to SHOW in what way my post is “so profoundly ignorant and misguided”, otherwise it will be assumed that you are unable to provide a rebuttal.
                                You would have been wise to have deleted this moronic post, too, Tass.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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