So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

[carpedm9587]

I have never argued homosexuality is against nature. It is completely in line with man's sin nature.

Since your observations on "sin" are not rooted in reason, there is no reasoned response to this assertion.

But I have seen people argue that homosexuality is normal because Chimps do it (although they do it as a dominance thing, not a love thing). And yet when Chimps do things they don't like all of a sudden "we are not animals, we are better" as Tassy is doing here.

Strictly speaking, these two positions are not logical opposites so they aren't mutually exclusive. However, I find them poor approaches to discussing moral issues.

[Tassman]

I love how people like Tassman use evolution and animals to justify behavior they like (homosexuality) but then appeal to humans being better than animals when the behavior is something they don't like (rape)

[Tassman]

It is against "nature" since human "nature" was not designed to partake of such things.

Human nature was not "designed"

[Sparko]

Except when it comes to things like homosexual behavior, right? Then it is OK because Chimps do it and it is natural.

[Tassman]

Except when it comes to things like homosexual behavior, right? Then it is OK because Chimps do it and it is natural.

[seer]

Like pedophilia and bestiality...

[Sparko]

So has murder and rape.

[Bill the Cat]

It's an abnormal expression, like Down's Syndrome is an abnormal expression of human genetics. Normal is the usual, average, or typical state or condition. Heterosexuality is the normal form of human sexual experience.

[Tassman]

It's an abnormal expression, like Down's Syndrome is an abnormal expression of human genetics. Normal is the usual, average, or typical state or condition. Heterosexuality is the normal form of human sexual experience.

[seer]

And the APA says that sexual attraction to children is not a disorder either. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dsm-p...ilia_n_4184878

And pedophilia has been accepted across cultures too. Now what?

[Bill the Cat]

Hence, according to Webster's Dictionary, normal.

homosexuality nevertheless represents normal, forms of human experience

False. It is not the normal sexual expression, according to the definition of normal. It is abnormal. That is not a value judgement, mind you.

(as is recognized by the APA)

and has been accepted in all human cultures and historical eras. Even the pagan gods dallied with it, witness Jupiter and Ganymede, or Greek heroes, as per Alexander the Great.

Acceptance is irrelevant when determining what constitutes the normal expression of an idea or action.

Never implied otherwise. "Sin" is a value judgement. Abnormal isn't. Something as simple as having red hair is abnormal according to the definition of "normal".

[Tassman]

And the APA says that sexual attraction to children is not a disorder either. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dsm-p...ilia_n_4184878

And pedophilia has been accepted across cultures too. Now what?

https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...ophilia-mental

[Tassman]

Hence, according to Webster's Dictionary, normal.



False. It is not the normal sexual expression, according to the definition of normal. It is abnormal. That is not a value judgement, mind you.

for humans is one of diversity of race, culture and sexual orientation.

https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation

Acceptance is irrelevant when determining what constitutes the normal expression of an idea or action.

Never implied otherwise. "Sin" is a value judgement. Abnormal isn't. Something as simple as having red hair is abnormal according to the definition of "normal".

No, is not abnormal, it is a normal variation within the species. The same applies to humans of different race...and homosexuals.

[tabibito]

https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...ophilia-mental

Eh? I wasn't aware that mental disorders were scientifically assessed on the basis of the moral position imputed by the assessor.

[seer]

https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...ophilia-mental

No Tass,

In a move toward destigmatizing pedophilia, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) in its updated Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), distinguishes between pedophiles who desire sex with children, and those who act on those desires.

The former group -- those who want to have sex with children but whose desires are not distressing or harmful to themselves or others -- is no longer classified as having a psychiatric condition in the updated DSM.

"The difference [from the last edition of the DSM] is, you're not automatically saying that as soon as someone has a marked, unusual erotic interest that they have a mental disorder," said Ray Blanchard, who cowrote the chapter on sexual disorders in the new DSM.

They distinguish between the desire and acting, pedophilia is about acting on the desire. So again Tass do you agree that sexual attraction is not a disorder?