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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
    Are you really that big of a liar? Or are you really just that profoundly ignorant of history.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
      Oh, so you aren't actually responding to what I wrote, or arguing from the Bible at all. You are shifting to indicting human actions of the past.

      My understanding is that for most of that 2,000 years, the vast majority of people worked at home (mainly agriculture). And the whole family (men, women, and children) had to engage in that work together just to survive. They were pretty equal. It was in the much smaller ruling classes that there was gender inequality. And even there your "Never" is not true. There were lots of notable influential women, and even several female monarchs.

      And saying that gender equality was neglected until the Suffragettes is also not true. For example, consider education. For most of those 2,000 years, the vast majority of men and women had no education. As education grew to become more possible for more people, the early Renaissance (early 1500s) thinkers argued for education for girls (and did educate girls).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Where in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
        Apparently, Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Isabella, and Catherine the Great never existed.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          As far as I can tell, the Christian married guys I know here would generally agree with the following premise: "When we got married, we agreed that the husband would make the major decisions, and the wife could make the minor decisions.... There hasn't been a major decision yet."
          This reflects the traditional viewpoint of Christianity.

          In general, until the women's movement, beginning with the Suffragettes who (shock/horror) demanded the right to vote, women were subordinated to men in Christian societies as a hangover from OT Patriarchy. This is reflected in many NT passages:

          Ephesians 5:22-24 ...wives should submit to their husbands etc.

          1 Timothy 2:11-15... A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent etc.

          1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ...women should remain silent in the churches (and following).

          1 Corinthians 11:3-16... Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man (and following).

          Colossians 3:18... Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

          Peter 3:1-6... Wives in the same way be submissive to your husbands (and following).

          Titus 2: 4-5... Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the word of God.

          The feminist movement has put an end to all this and now women hold power in many areas from running countries to running corporations. Plus having babies and caring for them

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Are you really that big of a liar? Or are you really just that profoundly ignorant of history.
          Your point?
          Last edited by Tassman; 02-22-2019, 11:38 PM.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Amen!!!!
            Yes, we are agreed that as a general rule it is a good thing for a mother to take care of her children.

            And only a MORON would get that from anything I said.
            OK. So, what is the role for women in your view, if you don't think their only role is to raise children and do home-duties?
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Note that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview. As Joel has amply shown, Christianity provides substantial basis for valuing all people as equal, and therefore worthy of courtesy and equal treatment. Under Christianity all people (male and female) are created in the image of God and thus have intrinsic value and dignity.

              Under a materialistic worldview it's hard to see how one can ground the ideal of equality, since in a materialistic world, no-one is in fact equal to anyone else, and people have no intrinsic value or worth. That is why Tassman is a parasite on the Christianity he obsessively hates (10,000 posts since the TWeb crash). He leeches his moral values from a worldview he despises, pitiable wretch.
              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Yes, we are agreed that as a general rule it is a good thing for a mother to take care of her children.
                Perhaps if you repeat it ONE MORE time, you'll be good?

                OK. So, what is the role for women in your view,
                I'm not the sick control freak you are - women are free to choose their own roles in society.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Your point?
                  That you're either a liar or you're profoundly ignorant of history. However, I believe there may be a more logical explanation --- you're just a drama queen
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Perhaps if you repeat it ONE MORE time, you'll be good?



                    I'm not the sick control freak you are - women are free to choose their own roles in society.
                    The last part reminds me of the 70s and how feminist groups like NOW declared that wimmenfolk should be free to choose their own paths but immediately belittled those who wanted to be stay-at-home mothers and raise a family as making a poor decision.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      The last part reminds me of the 70s and how feminist groups like NOW declared that wimmenfolk should be free to choose their own paths but immediately belittled those who wanted to be stay-at-home mothers and raise a family as making a poor decision.
                      EGGzackly! And since the ripped-out-of-context verses deal with "married couples", I would hope the couple would spend a little time before marriage to cover the "what are our roles" topic. Many successful Christian marriages find the man doing the "home stuff" and the woman pursuing a career.

                      Our minister of music, for example, has had 5 children with his wife - he stays at home and manages the kids, and they're quite happy with that arrangement. She "submitted" to his desire to stay home and be a Dad, and he "submitted" to her desire to continue a very lucrative career.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        Note that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview.
                        I'm beginning to wonder if Tassman is just henpecked to death, and this is his cry for help.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Anyone going to let Tazzy in on the reality that the 19th and early 20th century women’s rights activist were Christians that were motivated by their faith?
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Perhaps if you repeat it ONE MORE time, you'll be good?
                            No need, you have adopted it for your 'signature'.

                            And, you haven't answered the question. Again: Given that we are agree that children do best with their mothers, do you think there are other important roles for women as well? Or do you, like many Evangelicals, think that their god-given role is to raise children and do home-duties...as has been the case in our society until relatively recently?

                            I'm not the sick control freak you are -
                            ?

                            women are free to choose their own roles in society.
                            Women had to fight for that right to "choose their own roles in society”, hence the feminist movement. And the undeniable gains that have been made were ceded by men reluctantly.

                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That you're either a liar or you're profoundly ignorant of history.
                            Unsubstantiated allegations. What 'lies' and what 'ignorance of history'?

                            However, I believe there may be a more logical explanation --- you're just a drama queen
                            Yeah right, Pastor. Your usual ‘go-to’ response in lieu of substantive comment.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                              Note that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview. As Joel has amply shown, Christianity provides substantial basis for valuing all people as equal, and therefore worthy of courtesy and equal treatment. Under Christianity all people (male and female) are created in the image of God and thus have intrinsic value and dignity.
                              That’s nice in theory, but in fact until relatively recently women have NOT been accorded equal courtesy and equal treatment in Christianity. They were given no voting rights, were not allowed to own property or hold positions of authority (monarchs excepted) and were expected only to do their duty as home-keepers and mothers.

                              Under a materialistic worldview it's hard to see how one can ground the ideal of equality, since in a materialistic world, no-one is in fact equal to anyone else, and people have no intrinsic value or worth.
                              As an evolved social species, we all have equal rights. It is the best means to maintain the sort of cohesive society essential for our survival as a species. It’s instinctive for us and for all the social hominids, notably the chimpanzees our nearest relatives.

                              That is why Tassman is a parasite on the Christianity he obsessively hates (10,000 posts since the TWeb crash). He leeches his moral values from a worldview he despises, pitiable wretch.
                              Tsk, tsk, tsk!
                              Last edited by Tassman; 02-24-2019, 03:52 AM.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                Anyone going to let Tazzy in on the reality that the 19th and early 20th century women’s rights activist were Christians that were motivated by their faith?
                                Hush! It's more fun watching him pontificate in ignorance, all the while thinking he's the smart, educated and rational one.
                                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                                Comment

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