Originally posted by Mountain Man
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?
Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe concept of there being a "best" indicates an objective goal that everyone agrees on.
The Nazi's thought that what was "best" for their society was to kill all of the Jews. Does that mean that genocide is moral?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostSo, you at least admit then that moral rules of behavior would exist, that they would, by man, be codified into law, even if they did not come from an objectively existing source? Correct?
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, the bigotted, racist, Hitler did, and he was wrong. He may have had the right to do so, the power to do so, but having the right and the power to do so, isn't what determines if it was in the best interests of the community.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostNot necessarily. “Best” indicates there is a goal that some may agree on but that the rest will need persuading…sometimes successfully, sometimes not. E.g. killing witches or enslaving blacks.
Well, the colonial powers in the US thought that depriving Native Americans of their land and virtually destroying their culture was “best” for their society. Does that mean that such behavior was moral? Of course not. Social values change over time, they’re not “objective in any absolute sense. What is considered morally acceptable in one era is not considered morally acceptable in another.
Why wasn't it moral Tassman? Because your modern personal moral view says it isn't? They would see you as immoral for supporting homosexuality. Which of you is actually right? If there is no objective morality then neither of you is correct. You keep claiming morals are not objective, then turning around and arguing as if they were. Make up your mind and be consistent.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThen JimL's constant appeal to "what is best for society" is just meaningless nonsense.
Why wasn't it moral Tassman? Because your modern personal moral view says it isn't?
They would see you as immoral for supporting homosexuality.
Which of you is actually right?
If there is no objective morality then neither of you is correct. You keep claiming morals are not objective, then turning around and arguing as if they were. Make up your mind and be consistent.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostNot at all. He means (as do I) “what is best for society” at a given point of time in history.
No, because my “modern personal moral view” reflects the current values of the society to which I belong.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo what you mean is what a society PREFERS at any point in time. If there is no objective good or bad, then there can be no "best" - just preferences.
Except you already have shown that your personal view can easily differ from your society's view.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes. There is no reason to think there is an absolute “objective good or bad”.
It can, just as your personal view of morality can differ from society’s view. E.g. I presume you no longer hold to the bible-based view that demanded the killing of witches or homosexuals or disobedient children.
Comment
-
Originally posted by sparko View Postthen you have no leg to stand on to complain about any other culture's morality.
Well, i can because i believe morality is objective and i align myself with god, the source of that morality, and he as jesus said to forgive. And because you have no clueabout what the ot law was even about or what it says, or who it was given to. Or even what the difference is between something being immoral and the punishment for it. Homosexuality is still immoral, we just don't stone them any more. Same moral....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThen you have no leg to stand on to complain about any other culture's morality.
Well, I can because I believe morality is objective and I align myself with God, the source of that morality, and he as Jesus said to forgive.
Homosexuality is still immoral, we just don't stone them any more. Same moral.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe can if their "objective morality" impinges on our culture as per say, 9/11.
Of course, you don’t “stone them anymore”, despite God’s clear injunction. Many Muslims still abide by God’s Law in this regard. You don’t because such behavior is no longer acceptable in our culture, our social values have changed. This has been my point all along.
God's current "clear injunction" as you put it has nothing to do with OT law. Under the NT law, the maximum penalty for any offence is excommunication, or in secular terms, exile - no warrant for the death penalty, however enacted, is granted by the New Testament. War is arguably a different matter, but I'm not satisfied that a conclusive finding, whether pro or con, can be derived.
The Muslim's god, as declared by their own sacred texts, has very little in common with the Christian and Jewish god. There are many who see a close correlation between the Muslim god and Suen/Nanna.
Such penalties as stoning becoming unacceptable in our societies arises from Christian precepts, atheist claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Christians still argue against enacting the death penalty.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe can if their "objective morality" impinges on our culture as per say, 9/11.
Your “objective morality” is merely a personal, unsubstantiated subjective belief in the existence of “objective morality based upon religion. That you choose to believe in it doesn’t make it real, any more than the “objective morality” of Islam makes it real.
Of course, you don’t “stone them anymore”, despite God’s clear injunction. Many Muslims still abide by God’s Law in this regard. You don’t because such behavior is no longer acceptable in our culture, our social values have changed. This has been my point all along.
Comment
-
It can't have been a civil law - there was no such thing in Israel before the second temple period ... if it existed even then.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt can't have been a civil law - there was no such thing in Israel before the second temple period ... if it existed even then.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
|
16 responses
137 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
Today, 11:55 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
53 responses
363 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Mountain Man
Today, 11:32 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
25 responses
112 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 08:36 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
33 responses
197 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Roy
Today, 07:43 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
84 responses
364 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
Today, 11:08 AM
|
Comment