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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    If morals are subjective, then there is nothing wrong with slavery as long as that society thinks there is nothing wrong with it.
    Some of the very people that supported slavery, i.e. the Southern Baptist Convention, believe in the existence of divinely revealed objective morality. And yet they no-longer support slavery, which is now considered to be immoral. So much for objective morality.

    Thus demonstrably, morality is based on the social values of the day and scripture is selectively used to reinforce these cultural mores. As per Titus 2. 9-10 re slavery.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Some of the very people that supported slavery, i.e. the Southern Baptist Convention, believe in the existence of divinely revealed objective morality. And yet they no-longer support slavery, which is now considered to be immoral. So much for objective morality.

      Thus demonstrably, morality is based on the social values of the day and scripture is selectively used to reinforce these cultural mores. As per Titus 2. 9-10 re slavery.
      While I disagree with you on whether objective morality exists I completely agree with your point that what is often identified as objective moral standards are nothing but standards that fit the times, goals and aims of the people or the church promoting it in a given period in a given culture. When they claim they are objective it is often nothing more than a foolish self justification for doing what is objectively wrong like holding slaves, putting children in cages or whatever.

      I agree with many posters here on the need for there to be objective standards but looking at what actions people on tweb actually support or promote I find it interesting that those most likely to actually care about other human beings and show empathy are often those who do not believe in objective moral standards.
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        All the Southern Churches had to do was renounce slave ownership and they could have missionized to their heart’s content and remain with the Northern Churches. But they preferred to start a new Church and keep their slaves.
        You don't know that. You simply make stuff up to fit your anti-Christian agenda.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
          While I disagree with you on whether objective morality exists I completely agree with your point that what is often identified as objective moral standards are nothing but standards that fit the times, goals and aims of the people or the church promoting it in a given period in a given culture. When they claim they are objective it is often nothing more than a foolish self justification for doing what is objectively wrong like holding slaves, putting children in cages or whatever.

          I agree with many posters here on the need for there to be objective standards but looking at what actions people on tweb actually support or promote I find it interesting that those most likely to actually care about other human beings and show empathy are often those who do not believe in objective moral standards.
          I find it interesting that you think interacting with someone on the internet while never meeting them in real life is enough to judge how much they actually care about and show empathy for other human beings.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
            While I disagree with you on whether objective morality exists I completely agree with your point that what is often identified as objective moral standards are nothing but standards that fit the times, goals and aims of the people or the church promoting it in a given period in a given culture. When they claim they are objective it is often nothing more than a foolish self justification for doing what is objectively wrong like holding slaves, putting children in cages or whatever.

            I agree with many posters here on the need for there to be objective standards but looking at what actions people on tweb actually support or promote I find it interesting that those most likely to actually care about other human beings and show empathy are often those who do not believe in objective moral standards.
            Well I would go the extra step and argue that objective moral standards are ALWAYS "standards that fit the times, goals and aims of the people or the church promoting it in a given period in a given culture".
            Last edited by Tassman; 07-14-2019, 12:35 AM.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              You don't know that. You simply make stuff up to fit your anti-Christian agenda.
              Yes we DO know that.

              The Southern Baptist Convention was organized in 1845 at Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the Southern United States who split with northern Baptists over the issue of slavery, specifically whether Southern slave owners could serve as missionaries.

              And, I guess you missed this bit:

              1. The seminary’s founding faculty all held slaves. James P. Boyce, John A. Broadus, Basil Manly Jr., and William Williams together owned more than fifty persons. They invested capital in slaves who could earn for their owners an annual cash return on their investment.

              2. The seminary’s early faculty and trustees defended the righteousness of slaveholding. The seminary faculty supported the righteousness of slaveholding and opposed efforts to limit the institution. A number of the seminary’s prominent trustees advanced public defenses of slavery. James L. Reynolds argued that slavery was in the best interest of the slaves themselves. Joseph E. Brown argued that slavery was no mere necessary evil, but rather a God-ordained institution to be perpetuated.

              http://www.sbts.edu/wp-content/uploa...-v4.pdf#page=6

              Is this still your position CP? After all, slavery was a "God-ordained institution" and God's ordinances are not to be changed according to the subjective whim of mere humans.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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              • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                I find it interesting that you think interacting with someone on the internet while never meeting them in real life is enough to judge how much they actually care about and show empathy for other human beings.
                The statement was, of course, whitin the scope of how they act and what they say on tweb. It clearly says: "looking at what actions people on tweb actually support or promote". Having said that I don't see how people can express harsh statements on refugees or be OK with family separations, kids in cages and so on in an internet discussion without it have an influence on how I would look at their moral integrity.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Yes we DO know that.
                  No, we DON'T know that. It's simply your own conjecture that "all they had to do was renounce slavery". You have never shown that to be a condition of the northern churches to commission missionaries of the south.

                  The Southern Baptist Convention was organized in 1845 at Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the Southern United States who split with northern Baptists over the issue of slavery, specifically whether Southern slave owners could serve as missionaries.
                  Yes, that is a well established fact.

                  And, I guess you missed this bit:
                  "This bit" is your profound ignorance in thinking that "the seminary" is the same thing as "the Southern Baptist Convention".

                  Is this still your position CP?
                  My position is that you are an ignorant anti-Christian bigot who will jump however far it takes to support your misguided conclusions.

                  After all, slavery was a "God-ordained institution" and God's ordinances are not to be changed according to the subjective whim of mere humans.
                  That was never the official position of the Southern Baptist Convention. The information you cited is very clearly labeled "Report on Slavery and Racism in the History of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary".

                  What YOU probably missed was that, even though this was a dark time in our nation, and slavery was most definitely a part of the founding of the SBC, it's like the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas over John Mark, where they had a falling out and split up. The result was TWO missionary efforts instead of one. Eventually, they reconciled, but God's plan was advanced.

                  The resulting SBC is much bigger and far more influential than the organization from which it split, and has a much more effective missionary effort funded by "the Cooperative Program". We have mission organizations for individual states and/or regions, North America, for the World, and one of the finest and most effective relief organizations in the world.

                  But, in your anti-Christian bigotry, you will, no doubt, continue to wallow in the past, and spew forth ignorance and sling mud. It's who you are.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    No, we DON'T know that. It's simply your own conjecture that "all they had to do was renounce slavery". You have never shown that to be a condition of the northern churches to commission missionaries of the south.



                    Yes, that is a well established fact.
                    Exactly.

                    It is a well-established fact that The Southern Baptist Convention was organized in 1845 at Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the Southern United States who split with northern Baptists over the issue of slavery, specifically whether Southern slave owners could serve as missionaries. AND that the Southern Baptists split from the Northern Baptists and retained slave-ownership. Connect the dots.

                    "This bit" is your profound ignorance in thinking that "the seminary" is the same thing as "the Southern Baptist Convention".
                    Are you suggesting that the “Southern Baptist Theological Seminary" would NOT inculcate the new generation of future pastors with the beliefs and views of the Southern Baptist Convention?

                    My position is that you are an ignorant anti-Christian bigot who will jump however far it takes to support your misguided conclusions.
                    Well sadly that position is a given for you, CP. Just answer the question.

                    According to Joseph E. Brown “slavery was no mere necessary evil, but rather a God-ordained institution to be perpetuated”.

                    http://www.sbts.edu/wp-content/uploa...-v4.pdf#page=6

                    In short, he’s referencing slavery as divinely ordained objective morality. Is this your view, CP, or do you recognize that moral values are not objective and change according to the social mores of the day? And that slavery can no longer be countenanced?

                    That was never the official position of the Southern Baptist Convention. The information you cited is very clearly labeled "Report on Slavery and Racism in the History of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary".
                    And yet many of the faculty of the “Southern Baptist Theological Seminary" owned slaves and espoused pro-slavery views such as those above. As did many Southern Baptists. There’s no disconnect between the Southern Baptist Convention and the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary".

                    Slave ownership may not have been the "official position of the Southern Baptist Convention", but it was common practice just as the maintenance of the Jim Crow segregation laws was common practice until the Civil Rights Act put an end to it.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • I peeked into this thread because I was curious as to how a thread on "toxic masculinity" could persist for A HUNDRED AND FIFTY-SEVEN PAGES.

                      The answer it that somewhere along the line -- I have no idea when -- Tasshat turned it into another "THE SBC IS EBIL RACISTS!!!" thread.

                      Honestly, there has to be some sort of actual psychological dysfunction involved in his fixation.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        I peeked into this thread because I was curious as to how a thread on "toxic masculinity" could persist for A HUNDRED AND FIFTY-SEVEN PAGES.

                        The answer it that somewhere along the line -- I have no idea when -- Tasshat turned it into another "THE SBC IS EBIL RACISTS!!!" thread.

                        Honestly, there has to be some sort of actual psychological dysfunction involved in his fixation.
                        He's an anti-Christian bigot with a particular obsession with the SBC. The boy is driven by hate.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          I peeked into this thread because I was curious as to how a thread on "toxic masculinity" could persist for A HUNDRED AND FIFTY-SEVEN PAGES.

                          The answer it that somewhere along the line -- I have no idea when -- Tasshat turned it into another "THE SBC IS EBIL RACISTS!!!" thread.

                          Honestly, there has to be some sort of actual psychological dysfunction involved in his fixation.
                          Which is interesting because things like slavery and racism are merely relative wrongs, and could in fact be relative goods, given the particular culture...
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Which is interesting because things like slavery and racism are merely relative wrongs, and could in fact be relative goods, given the particular culture...
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              According to Tassman's subjective morality stance. Seer forgot the sarcasm tags....
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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                              • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                                According to Tassman's subjective morality stance. Seer forgot the sarcasm tags....
                                yep...
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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