So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

[Cow Poke]

False equivalency. Exiting an elevator is not the same as being on board a doomed, sinking ship like the Titanic. There is good reason in the latter instance to save the next generation.

So, there are only SOME circumstances where we should be "simply treating everybody, male and female, with equal respect and courtesy". What a freakin' hypocrite.

[Tassman]

So, there are only SOME circumstances where we should be "simply treating everybody, male and female, with equal respect and courtesy". What a freakin' hypocrite.

In life or death situations it behooves us to give priority to the next generation. This is not the situation on elevators as a general rule.

[Cow Poke]

In life or death situations it behooves us to give priority to the next generation.

And the men are less capable of saving "the next generation" than the women? Why give priority to the women in this case?

[Tassman]

And the men are less capable of saving "the next generation" than the women? Why give priority to the women in this case?

This was in the context of "women and children first"...remember?

[Cow Poke]

This was in the context of "women and children first"...remember?

Yes, and you ignored the women and went to "the next generation". Why is that? The men can save the children and still produce "the next generation". (You do realize that not ALL of the women in the world were on the Titanic, yes?)

Why give the women priority? (let's both agree that the children need priority getting off the doomed liner)

[Tassman]

Yes, and you ignored the women and went to "the next generation". Why is that? The men can save the children and still produce "the next generation". (You do realize that not ALL of the women in the world were on the Titanic, yes?)

Why give the women priority? (let's both agree that the children need priority getting off the doomed liner)

I think we can agree that young children and babies fare better with their mothers:

"Millvina Dean, has died at the age of 97 in Southampton after catching pneumonia. As a two-month-old baby, Dean was the youngest passenger on board the giant liner when it sank on its maiden voyage with the loss of more than 1,500 lives". https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-survivor-dies

But you've moved on a long way from exiting an elevator, which was the example to which I was responding and for which you appear to have no argument. .

[Cow Poke]

I think we can agree that young children and babies fare better with their mothers:

You may eventually come to regret admitting that!

Millvina Dean, has died at the age of 97 in Southampton after catching pneumonia. As a two-month-old baby, Dean was the youngest passenger on board the giant liner when it sank on its maiden voyage with the loss of more than 1,500 lives. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-survivor-dies

So, it's often more important to give women MORE courtesy and respect than men... I agree!

So, how do we teach this? We train our young men to be courteous and respectful to women so that, hopefully, in a crisis situation, they don't just look out for themselves, but look after "the next generation".

[Tassman]

You may eventually come to regret admitting that!

I think there’s little doubt that as a rule young children and babies fare better with their mothers

So, it's often more important to give women MORE courtesy and respect than men... I agree!

No, not often. Occasionally as needs arise. Rarely in elevators.

So, how do we teach this? We train our young men to be courteous and respectful to women so that,

So how about we train our young boys and our young girls to show mutual respect and courtesy to all.

hopefully, in a crisis situation, they don't just look out for themselves, but look after "the next generation".

Hopefully, in any crisis situation we all look out for each other like civilized people

[Cow Poke]

I think there’s little doubt that as a rule young children and babies fare better with their mothers

Amen!!! This is a fundamental principle of the nuclear family.

No, not often. Occasionally as needs arise. Rarely in elevators.

Elevators are just one of the places where we can reinforce this value, Tassy. You know, help to make it "second nature".

So how about we train our young boys and our young girls to show mutual respect and courtesy to all.

You bet! But, knowing there may be a crisis where we need to save "our next generation", it would be good for our young men to practice that principle in daily living - you know, saving our next generation!

Hopefully, in any crisis situation we all look out for each other like civilized people

Yes, and ESPECIALLY in those crisis situations where it becomes necessary for men to step up and save "our next generation" - our women and children.

You have made some EXCELLENT points, Tassy, and it has been a pleasure working through this exercise!

I might even AMEN one of your posts just to show my gratitude!

[Tassman]

Amen!!! This is a fundamental principle of the nuclear family.



Elevators are just one of the places where we can reinforce this value, Tassy. You know, help to make it "second nature".



You bet! But, knowing there may be a crisis where we need to save "our next generation", it would be good for our young men to practice that principle in daily living - you know, saving our next generation!



Yes, and ESPECIALLY in those crisis situations where it becomes necessary for men to step up and save "our next generation" - our women and children.

You have made some EXCELLENT points, Tassy, and it has been a pleasure working through this exercise!

I might even AMEN one of your posts just to show my gratitude!

So how about we train our young boys and our young girls to show mutual respect and courtesy to all...even exiting from elevators.

[Cow Poke]

So how about we train our young boys and our young girls to show mutual respect and courtesy to all...even exiting from elevators.

And I thought we were making progress.

See, here's how it works, Tassy.

Police Officers go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run into the school where shooting is happening. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.
Fire Fighters go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run into burning buildings when everybody else is running out. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.
Soldiers go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run TOWARD the gunfire when everybody else is running away. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.

It just makes sense that, when we want people to do extraordinary things - like risk their own lives to save "our next generation", we teach that to our young men in daily life. We want them to jump to the aid of "the next generation" just like it's second nature.

Elevators would be just one of those teaching opportunities.

That "next generation" argument was what I was missing -- I appreciate you making that case.

[Tassman]

And I thought we were making progress.

See, here's how it works, Tassy.

Police Officers go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run into the school where shooting is happening. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.
Fire Fighters go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run into burning buildings when everybody else is running out. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.
Soldiers go through special training and drills to teach them to do their jobs, because it's really not human nature to run TOWARD the gunfire when everybody else is running away. That needs to be taught, practiced, drilled.

It just makes sense that, when we want people to do extraordinary things - like risk their own lives to save "our next generation", we teach that to our young men in daily life. We want them to jump to the aid of "the next generation" just like it's second nature.

What we do is train our young men and our young women to show mutual respect and courtesy to all. The specialized training to which you refer comes later. It surely hasn't escaped your notice that women are nowadays active participants in virtually every discipline and occupation, including the fire-fighting, the armed services and the police force etc.

Elevators would be just one of those teaching opportunities.

Sure, for ALL people to learn the basic courtesies towards one another.

[Cow Poke]

Sure, for ALL people to learn the basic courtesies towards one another.

Especially the men, since they're the ones we're going to expect to save "the next generation" in a crisis!

[Cow Poke]

It surely hasn't escaped your notice that women are nowadays active participants in virtually every discipline and occupation, including the fire-fighting, the armed services and the police force etc.

Ah, EXCELLENT point, Tassy - and the women have to train extra hard because, particularly in fighting fires, there are lots of heavy things to carry, including ladders and Scotpacks, and breaching equipment, and even fallen comrades... and feats of physical stamina that MOST women are not physically equipped to deal with like MOST men are. And we all know that " young children and babies fare better with their mothers", so some of those moms are gonna have to stay home with those young children and babies.

But, when it comes to a crisis situation, we expect the men to step it up a notch because they gotta look after "the next generation".

I have a whole new ... um... almost degree of respect for you, Tassy... for helping us flesh this thing out!

This has been FUN!!!!

[Starlight]

So how about we train our young boys and our young girls to show mutual respect and courtesy to all...even exiting from elevators.

Reminds me of this I saw today...