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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Actually, if you read the link the women found aggressive men attractive at times for short-term flings, but not for long-term relationships. Instead they went for 'nice guys' for long term relationships.

    the thinking goes, women will maximize their reproductive success by choosing a macho man as a short-term mate for his genes, and a less masculine man with a warmer personality for a long-term, invested partner.

    ...

    What did the researchers find? Women preferred aggressive men as short-term mates, and particularly during ovulation... At the same time, it is important to underscore that these men were preferred as short-term mates. Dominant men who derive pleasure from being aggressive deliver scant relationship benefits because they pose a threat to the family, show decreased parental investment, and have affairs. Consequently, and as expected, the women in this study preferred less aggressive men for long-term relationships.

    So the macho men get the one night stands, but the nice guys get the girls long-term.
    My over all point is that male aggression, dominance and hierarchy are biological, not cultural since we find the same behavior in our closest primate cousins, and since women prefer aggressive men to father their children, re-productively, macho men win by spreading their genes. So your cultural argument fails, it is biological. And yes, perhaps later women prefer to settle down with wimps that they can henpeck...
    Last edited by seer; 01-17-2019, 05:51 AM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #32
      If someone made an ad about "toxic femininity" and showed a bunch of women shopping for shoes, nagging their husbands and gossiping about each other, and saying "Is this the best we can get?" - women would be in an uproar about the sexism in the ad.

      Yet when they do it to men, it is being "woke"

      Comment


      • #33
        Ooh... double standard? How about we don't act like school children and lay off with the battle of the sexes?
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          To nuke the nuclear family.
          In a sense, yes.

          Also: Bovine faeces to your claim. In my entire life not once have I ever heard it suggested by any of the tens of thousands of hours worth of liberal and leftist sources that I've listened to and read that it was a desirable goal to destroy the nuclear family. Your claim is just utterly wacko.
          It doesn't have to be "suggested" - it's your inherent evil.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Actually, if you read the link the women found aggressive men attractive at times for short-term flings, but not for long-term relationships. Instead they went for 'nice guys' for long term relationships.
            Perhaps it's inconceivable to you that men can actually be 'aggressive' at times, and in certain situations, and 'nice guys' in others.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by TheWall View Post
              I dont see how that would be. Isnt that just being courteous?
              Of course, but they're more interested in being "in your face" militant feminist than being appreciative.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Masculinity isn’t toxic – corporate moralizing is

                I love it...

                The first thing that astonishes about Gillette’s effort to alienate an entire customer base in a single two-minute slickly produced virtue signal is the arrogance. The unblinking temerity of a brand believing it’s somehow its duty not merely to make an appeal for commercial inclusion, but rather to instruct millions of people on how to lead their lives. If the ideological vacuum left by the decline of Christianity in the West really is being filled with a rush of competing forces, then surely we can view Gillette’s ad as consumerism’s most blatant effort yet from the pulpit of modernity to claim the hearts and minds (and souls) of the lumpen masses.

                Yes, it’s easy to be cynical, but perhaps in these uncertain times, without realizing it, what society is crying out for is an updating of the moral codes that underpin all human endeavor by retail sages who preside over multi-billion dollar enterprises. Because they must know a thing or two about how to lead a good and fulfilling life. Right? Enlightenment you can buy in the supermarket – amazing it’s taken humanity this long to come around to it.

                But how to tell the guys down the gym? That’s what I worry about. Where I go it’s not so much toxic masculinity as fragrant. Fashionable women might increasingly say they find men ridiculous, but they don’t see the lengths men go to on their behalf in shared male locker rooms. The preening. The semi-naked staring and flexing into mirrors. The shameless using of communal handheld hairdryers to blow-dry gonads. Ridiculous, yes, but all of it a meticulous behind-the-scenes preparation for the all important mating game that goes on outside – the one in which the fairer sex holds all the decisive cards. Gillette, here of all places, we thought you were on our side. You’ve forsaken us because to you we’re all now bullies, harassers and would-be rapists? Thanks a bunch. We thought you really knew us and what we aspired to be....
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Masculinity isn’t toxic – corporate moralizing is

                  I love it...

                  The first thing that astonishes about Gillette’s effort to alienate an entire customer base in a single two-minute slickly produced virtue signal is the arrogance. The unblinking temerity of a brand believing it’s somehow its duty not merely to make an appeal for commercial inclusion, but rather to instruct millions of people on how to lead their lives. If the ideological vacuum left by the decline of Christianity in the West really is being filled with a rush of competing forces, then surely we can view Gillette’s ad as consumerism’s most blatant effort yet from the pulpit of modernity to claim the hearts and minds (and souls) of the lumpen masses.

                  Yes, it’s easy to be cynical, but perhaps in these uncertain times, without realizing it, what society is crying out for is an updating of the moral codes that underpin all human endeavor by retail sages who preside over multi-billion dollar enterprises. Because they must know a thing or two about how to lead a good and fulfilling life. Right? Enlightenment you can buy in the supermarket – amazing it’s taken humanity this long to come around to it.

                  But how to tell the guys down the gym? That’s what I worry about. Where I go it’s not so much toxic masculinity as fragrant. Fashionable women might increasingly say they find men ridiculous, but they don’t see the lengths men go to on their behalf in shared male locker rooms. The preening. The semi-naked staring and flexing into mirrors. The shameless using of communal handheld hairdryers to blow-dry gonads. Ridiculous, yes, but all of it a meticulous behind-the-scenes preparation for the all important mating game that goes on outside – the one in which the fairer sex holds all the decisive cards. Gillette, here of all places, we thought you were on our side. You’ve forsaken us because to you we’re all now bullies, harassers and would-be rapists? Thanks a bunch. We thought you really knew us and what we aspired to be....
                  The new era of advertising...



                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    To nuke the nuclear family.

                    Also: Bovine faeces to your claim. In my entire life not once have I ever heard it suggested by any of the tens of thousands of hours worth of liberal and leftist sources that I've listened to and read that it was a desirable goal to destroy the nuclear family. Your claim is just utterly wacko..


                    http://www.historyfuturenow.com/wp/w...or-us-to-live/

                    On the “Guiding Principles” page of its website, the Black Lives Matter movement makes the stunning statement that it stands in opposition to the traditional—biblical—”nuclear family.”

                    Under the tab “Black Villages,” it makes the following statement:

                    We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.
                    http://www.educationviews.org/black-...uclear-family/


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      My over all point is that male aggression, dominance and hierarchy are biological, not cultural since we find the same behavior in our closest primate cousins, and since women prefer aggressive men to father their children, re-productively, macho men win by spreading their genes. So your cultural argument fails, it is biological. And yes, perhaps later women prefer to settle down with wimps that they can henpeck...
                      The study Star quoted is over simplistic in it's methodology and conclusions. What women MOST prefer (and are therefore most attracted to) is confident, assertive "nice guys" vs. domineering, aggressive type guys....both to date and marry.

                      This Article quotes this study (apparently behind a pay wall) done where distinctions were actually made and analyzed:

                      ...They found that only 1 woman out of the 50 undergraduates in their sample actually identified “dominant” as one of the traits she sought in either an ideal date or a romantic partner. For the rest of the dominant adjectives, the two big winners were confident (72% sought this trait for an ideal date; 74% sought this trait for an ideal romantic partner) and assertive (48% sought this trait for an ideal date; 36% sought this trait for an ideal romantic partner). Not one woman wanted a demanding male, and only 12% wanted an aggressive person for a date and romantic partner.

                      In terms of the nondominant adjectives, the big winners were easygoing (68% sought this trait for an ideal date; 64% sought this trait for an ideal romantic partner) and sensitive (76% sought this trait for an ideal date and ideal romantic partner). Not one woman wanted a submissive male for either a date or romance. Other low-ranked nondominant adjectives were shy (2% for dating; 0% for romantic) and quiet (4% for ideal; 2% for romantic).


                      This analysis was revealing because it suggests that dominance can take many forms. The dominant male who is demanding, violent, and self-centered is not considered attractive to most women, whereas the dominant male who is assertive and confident is considered attractive. As the researchers suggest, “Men who dominate others because of leadership qualities and other superior abilities and who therefore are able and willing to provide for their families quite possibly will be preferred to potential partners who lack these attributes.”
                      "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                      "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Masculinity isn’t toxic – corporate moralizing is

                        I love it...

                        The first thing that astonishes about Gillette’s effort to alienate an entire customer base in a single two-minute slickly produced virtue signal is the arrogance. The unblinking temerity of a brand believing it’s somehow its duty not merely to make an appeal for commercial inclusion, but rather to instruct millions of people on how to lead their lives. If the ideological vacuum left by the decline of Christianity in the West really is being filled with a rush of competing forces, then surely we can view Gillette’s ad as consumerism’s most blatant effort yet from the pulpit of modernity to claim the hearts and minds (and souls) of the lumpen masses.

                        Yes, it’s easy to be cynical, but perhaps in these uncertain times, without realizing it, what society is crying out for is an updating of the moral codes that underpin all human endeavor by retail sages who preside over multi-billion dollar enterprises. Because they must know a thing or two about how to lead a good and fulfilling life. Right? Enlightenment you can buy in the supermarket – amazing it’s taken humanity this long to come around to it.

                        But how to tell the guys down the gym? That’s what I worry about. Where I go it’s not so much toxic masculinity as fragrant. Fashionable women might increasingly say they find men ridiculous, but they don’t see the lengths men go to on their behalf in shared male locker rooms. The preening. The semi-naked staring and flexing into mirrors. The shameless using of communal handheld hairdryers to blow-dry gonads. Ridiculous, yes, but all of it a meticulous behind-the-scenes preparation for the all important mating game that goes on outside – the one in which the fairer sex holds all the decisive cards. Gillette, here of all places, we thought you were on our side. You’ve forsaken us because to you we’re all now bullies, harassers and would-be rapists? Thanks a bunch. We thought you really knew us and what we aspired to be....

                        Not to mention, Gillette and other such products typically use sex and macho themes (fighting, sports, etc) to sell their products, but now they want to preach to us about what it means to be a man?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Not to mention, Gillette and other such products typically use sex and macho themes (fighting, sports, etc) to sell their products, but now they want to preach to us about what it means to be a man?
                          It's almost like they're preparing for the assault on their wicked ways, and are trying to preempt them by being superwoke!
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Not to mention, Gillette and other such products typically use sex and macho themes (fighting, sports, etc) to sell their products, but now they want to preach to us about what it means to be a man?
                            Maybe they should, you know, look to the log in their own eye first



                            Just sayin'

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I still have not seen this commercial. One friend of mine who is hostile to feminism thought that it was actually a conservative commercial that promoted fatherhood.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                I still have not seen this commercial. One friend of mine who is hostile to feminism thought that it was actually a conservative commercial that promoted fatherhood.

                                Comment

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