So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

[seer]

The rules of cooperative social behavior arose and evolve as a survival mechanism for humanity. All indications are that the developed countries, with their emphasis on equal rights for all, are more stable than places where religion dominates and where the so-called “objective morality of God” dominates.

Nonsense Tass, China and Iran are quite stable with no human rights.

[Tassman]

Still haven't answered the question.

You called Muslim societies moral codes "barbaric". Sparko asked you why they should care what you think.

I didn't say they should.

[Tassman]

Nonsense Tass, China and Iran are quite stable with no human rights.

I did not say such places are not stable. I said that that “the developed countries, with their emphasis on equal rights for all, are more stable” than places where conformist ideological dogma is enforced…whether political or religious. The developed countries of the West are a case in point.

[seer]

I did not say such places are not stable. I said that that “the developed countries, with their emphasis on equal rights for all, are more stable” than places where conformist ideological dogma is enforced…whether political or religious. The developed countries of the West are a case in point.

That is just silly Tass, China is probably more stable than many western countries where you have competing factions vying for privilege or power. Never mind that in your relative world equal rights are not an objective moral good, but merely a subjective expedient.

[tabibito]

I did not say such places are not stable. I said that that “the developed countries, with their emphasis on equal rights for all, are more stable” than places where conformist ideological dogma is enforced…whether political or religious. The developed countries of the West are a case in point.

Hasn't been a democracy lasted more than 600 years to date. (though constitutional monarchy does have a better record.) China and Japan at least lasted for millenia without democracy, and with longer periods of peace than any democracy has ever known. It took the military superiority of Europe to bring all that to an end.

[Mountain Man]

Hasn't been a democracy lasted more than 600 years to date. (though constitutional monarchy does have a better record.) China and Japan at least lasted for millenia without democracy, and with longer periods of peace than any democracy has ever known. It took the military superiority of Europe to bring all that to an end.

As the saying goes, a democracy only lasts as long as it takes for the people to start voting only on the basis of who promises them the biggest handout, and then the system collapses.

[Tassman]

That is just silly Tass, China is probably more stable than many western countries where you have competing factions vying for privilege or power.

You’re confusing “stability” with “conformity”. China, with its enforced conformity, is certainly more stable in that sense than many Western countries. Whether or not that is a good thing is another question. The large numbers of Uighur Muslims incarcerated in Chinese detention camps probably wouldn’t think so.

Never mind that in your relative world equal rights are not an objective moral good, but merely a subjective expedient.

Equal rights are considered a desirable moral good as compared to notions of “objective moral good”, which are enforced by those who think they’ve got it right. Notions of “objective moral good” have changed considerably over the millennia, especially that supposedly grounded in scripture.

[MaxVel]

I didn't say they should.

Your avoidance of the issue shows that you indeed have no answer. You have no basis to object to anyone else's moral values - that's the logical outcome of your own beliefs.

[Sparko]

Of course, societies determine their own morality, where else would it come from? Our moral values can’t come from a deity because there's no evidence that deities exist outside of the minds of our species. Therefore, God’s moral values are just our moral values. And they apply to communities rather than individuals, because we have evolved as a 'social species' which must live in community to survive.

And yet you claimed that Arab societies that practice tossing homosexuals off of rooftops was immoral. It is only immoral in our society, so you have no actual argument with them claiming it is moral in their society. To each his own, right? Yet you do complain that what they do is actually immoral. You can't help yourself. Because in your heart you know that morals are objective.

It's kind of fun watching you contradict yourself with every other post.

[MaxVel]

And yet you claimed that Arab societies that practice tossing homosexuals off of rooftops was immoral. It is only immoral in our society, so you have no actual argument with them claiming it is moral in their society. To each his own, right? Yet you do complain that what they do is actually immoral. You can't help yourself. Because in your heart you know that morals are objective.

It's kind of fun watching you contradict yourself with every other post.

Kind of pathetic that the bulk of Tassman's objection to Christianity have a strong moral component, yet he himself has no basis for his morals being relevant to people in other communities.

[Cow Poke]

And yet you claimed that Arab societies that practice tossing homosexuals off of rooftops was immoral. It is only immoral in our society, so you have no actual argument with them claiming it is moral in their society. To each his own, right? Yet you do complain that what they do is actually immoral. You can't help yourself. Because in your heart you know that morals are objective.

It's kind of fun watching you contradict yourself with every other post.

Tassman has this thing about contradiction, particularly with regard to homosexuality. It's why he can constantly attack Christians as mindless boobs who believe in ghosts and magic, but defends somebody like Buttigieg as an honorable Christian.

[MaxVel]

Tassman has this thing about contradiction, particularly with regard to homosexuality. It's why he can constantly attack Christians as mindless boobs who believe in ghosts and magic, but defends somebody like Buttigieg as an honorable Christian.

It's called 'any objection is a good objection as long as it can be used against what I'm prejudiced against'.

Notice how he deals with scholars and sources: anything and anyone that he already agrees with is a top scholar or a very respected source. Anyone that disagrees with his pet hobby-horses is biased, or a poor quality source etc. For Tassman, the truth of any matter is whatever makes Christians, Christianity and God look bad.

[Cow Poke]

It's called 'any objection is a good objection as long as it can be used against what I'm prejudiced against'.

Notice how he deals with scholars and sources: anything and anyone that he already agrees with is a top scholar or a very respected source. Anyone that disagrees with his pet hobby-horses is biased, or a poor quality source etc. For Tassman, the truth of any matter is whatever makes Christians, Christianity and God look bad.

I'm amused at his ability to weaponize language, adding all sorts of colorful adjectives to build up those he prefers to use as sources - like when he builds up Albert Mohler as a mega-important highly respected Baptist spokesperson when he says something not so complimentary about Christians. When Mohler condemns homosexuality, however, he's an ignorant boob.

[Sparko]

I'm amused at his ability to weaponize language, adding all sorts of colorful adjectives to build up those he prefers to use as sources - like when he builds up Albert Mohler as a mega-important highly respected Baptist spokesperson when he says something not so complimentary about Christians. When Mohler condemns homosexuality, however, he's an ignorant boob.

I have stopped taking Tassman (and JimL) seriously a long time ago. They are just trolls.

[Cow Poke]

I have stopped taking Tassman (and JimL) seriously a long time ago. They are just trolls.

But Tassman can be so articulate about it!