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[Mountain Man]

So he's learned that the left, since back in Reagan's time, solemnly promises to deal with the problem as soon as they get their way only to go back on their word and ignore it. You're familiar with the old saying about "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me" I presume. We'll the left has been continuously making fools of everyone over this for something like two generations now.

Now they're telling Trump, "First concede your best bargaining chip, and then we'll talk.". Like Trump is going to fall for that.

It's interesting how liberals are studiously ignoring the fact that the first thing the Democrats did in response to the shutdown is go on a tropical vacation.

[oxmixmudd]

So he's learned that the left, since back in Reagan's time, solemnly promises to deal with the problem as soon as they get their way only to go back on their word and ignore it. You're familiar with the old saying about "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me" I presume. We'll the left has been continuously making fools of everyone over this for something like two generations now.

That is not the point. The point is it is wrong to use funding the government as leverage to get ones way. Especially in this sort of no compromise TL to all those affected by it sort of a way. And I don't care who else did it when. It's wrong to use innocent people this way, to hold people, then entire nation eventually, hostage in this destructive a manner to try to force the other party to give into your demands.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Now they're telling Trump, "First concede your best bargaining chip, and then we'll talk.". Like Trump is going to fall for that.

It's interesting how liberals are studiously ignoring the fact that the first thing the Democrats did in response to the shutdown is go on a tropical vacation.

People's lives are not 'bargaining chips'.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

People's lives are not 'bargaining chips'.

Then maybe the Democrats need to get serious about compromising with our President.

[oxmixmudd]

Then maybe the Democrats need to get serious about compromising with our President.

OK, so in your mind when a terrorist holds a gun to someone's head and demands 10,000,000 dollars, then when he US refuses to pay the demand the US is responsible for that persons death?

The president is the one who will not compromise. It's all just a game to him. A game that is fueled by people like you not holding him accountable to normal modes of decency and respect for the people around him.

Jim

[rogue06]

OK, so in your mind when a terrorist holds a gun to someone's head and demands 10,000,000 dollars, then when he US refuses to pay the demand the US is responsible for that persons death?

The president is the one who will not compromise. It's all just a game to him. A game that is fueled by people like you not holding him accountable to normal modes of decency and respect for the people around him.

Jim

In your scenario the actual terrorist is the one who refuses to budge an inch, rejects all offers of compromise even before hearing what it is and tries to sneak off on junkets leaving the American people in the lurch. And that isn't Trump.

[Mountain Man]

OK, so in your mind when a terrorist holds a gun to someone's head and demands 10,000,000 dollars, then when he US refuses to pay the demand the US is responsible for that persons death?

The president is the one who will not compromise. It's all just a game to him. A game that is fueled by people like you not holding him accountable to normal modes of decency and respect for the people around him.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

In your scenario the actual terrorist is the one who refuses to budge an inch, rejects all offers of compromise even before hearing what it is and tries to sneak off on junkets leaving the American people in the lurch. And that isn't Trump.

Trump is the one that instigated the shutdown, bragged about it, pushed for it, refused to budge - the wall or a shutdown. It's all on him. The democrats are refusing to allow him to manipulate them with his demand for a wall. Trump is the one trying to force their hand with the shutdown. trump is the one using the shutdown to get his own way.

He also took full credit for it, promised that the shutdown was on him:

Source: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/11/trump-border-wall-congress-budget-1055433

In a pitched partisan argument televised for all to see, the GOP president and the House and Senate Democratic leaders traded barbs over Trump’s border wall during what was supposed to be a private negotiating session to keep a large swath of the government from shuttering after Dec. 21.


And in perhaps his most definitive statement yet, Trump said he would be “proud” to preside over a partial shutdown if that’s what it takes to get his campaign promise fulfilled.

Democrats urged the president against such a stance, even as they seized on the chance to blame Trump for any potential shutdown.

“We shouldn’t shut down the government over a dispute,” said Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/11/nancy-pelosi-chuck-schumer-let-trump-take-responsibility-for-shutdown.html

Donald Trump said a shutdown would be on him. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer were happy to agree

© Copyright Original Source

The shut down is on Trump. You don't have a leg to stand on.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

You're drooling. You might want to get that checked.

Jim

[rogue06]

Trump is the one that instigated the shutdown, bragged about it, pushed for it, refused to budge - the wall or a shutdown. It's all on him.

And that all changed when Pelosi rejected any and all offers to compromise without even bothering to look at what he offered. At that moment Pelosi owned the shutdown.

[Mountain Man]

You're drooling. You might want to get that checked.

Sorry, reading your drivel tends to cause that reaction.

[Mountain Man]

And that all changed when Pelosi rejected any and all offers to compromise without even bothering to look at what he offered. At that moment Pelosi owned the shutdown.

The shutdown could have been avoided entirely if Pelosi had put the good of the country ahead of politics.

[oxmixmudd]

And that all changed when Pelosi rejected any and all offers to compromise without even bothering to look at what he offered. At that moment Pelosi owned the shutdown.

You need to come out of your Fox/Breitbart fantasy land.


A temporary extension of DACA as a trade for the full $5.7 billion?


Nope. If Trump offers reasonable compromises and the democrats overplay their hand, you will have a point. But right now, Trump has dug himself into a massive hole, and the only way out is to offer a real compromise. Then if the dems refuse to budge they start to take back ownership. Trump has a LOT of grovelling to do on this one yet. but the Dems may not be smart enough not to overplay their hand. That is yet to be seen.

In any schoolyard when the Bully tries to push someone around that he thinks he's big enough to push around, and that smaller kid stands up to him and pummels him into the ground, the bystanders are ALL in the little kids court. The only way the Bully can win the sympathy of the bystanders is to first yell Uncle loud enough to be heard, and then only if the fellow he was bullying refuses to let him up will the person bullied begin to lose the sympathy of the audience. Trump is a major bully on this one. And has given the Dems huge gains in public sympathy. The wall is not worth a shutdown to all but the 'willing to follow Trump into hell' crowd.

They can afford to tell him where to go with his first 'offer'.



Jim

[One Bad Pig]

So easy... And yet you failed to do it.

He quite obviously dismissed them as irrational ravings, Charles.

[JimL]

The shutdown could have been avoided entirely if Pelosi had put the good of the country ahead of politics.

The shutdown could have been avoided entirely if Trump didn't decide to shut it down, and to own it. Trump is also the only one that can reopen the government without conditions. You know what that means don't you? It means Trump is holding 800,000 workers and about a million and a half of their family members, not to mention the subcontractors and business owners that are indirectly effected, HOSTAGE. Should we negotiate with hostage takers? I don't think we should encourage that sort of thing from a wannabe dictator, do you?