A Question of Respect?

[carpedm9587]

Sorry, but you're going to have to start using the phrase "they said/they said".

Yessir!

[Cow Poke]

No - they were. Specifically - I was speaking about the young man (we now know to be Sandmann) in the face-to-face confrontation with the Native American man (who we now know to be Phillips).

We also have learned that Phillips is a political activist, not a stranger to such confrontations.

nathan phillips.jpg

The initial reporting, of course, would have you believe he was just a poor old Native American man who was being disrespected.

[carpedm9587]

And you did reference the hats too? Correct? And confrontation?

Yes to all.

Why do you think that was a confrontation?

Body language, facial expressions, and encroachment on personal space.

In any case the Indian approached the kids, not the other way around.

There are differing claims with respect to this.

But again on your title - whose respect were you questioning?

In general, when there is encroachment of personal space between a young person and an elder person, I tend to question the respect of the younger. The look on the young man's face lends itself to that interpretation. The clear admiration the young man has for a man who promotes bullying, condescension, and ridicule adds to the perception (hence my reference to the hat and support for Trump). My initial response to the video was a negative one with respect to the young man, probably also influenced by my wife's strong negative reaction.

As later stories came out, I found myself less sure of that interpretation. If pushed to voice an opinion, I am more inclined to believe the story of the older man and I find corroboration for it in the video (the audio about the man making peace, the clear positioning of the group between the kids and the Black Isrealites, the language of the Black Isrealites, etc.. But there are crucial elements missing that leave room for doubt. The manner in which the boy and the elder encounter one another is not visible. The "build the wall" chant is not captured in any video. The beginning of the interaction between the kids and the Black Isrealites is not captured. The role of the chaperones is not captured.

So - I'm inclined to believe Phillips, but the fact is I do not know and don't have enough evidence to draw a firm conclusion. I'm not sure if that can be any clearer.

And, again, this has rather run its course, so I'll leave last observations to others, unless someone has access to additional information/evidence.

[carpedm9587]

We also have learned that Phillips is a political activist, not a stranger to such confrontations.

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The initial reporting, of course, would have you believe he was just a poor old Native American man who was being disrespected.

I knew that - and his role in the Dakota Sands protest. This is not new information for me. "Political activist" is not a dirty word for me. It simply means he is a person who takes a stand for what he believes. I'm not going to assume "bad" on the basis of that. MLK was a political activist. So was Ghandi. So was Rosa Parks.

[seer]

Yes to all.



Body language, facial expressions, and encroachment on personal space.



There are differing claims with respect to this.

No Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.

[carpedm9587]

No Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.

Yes - Phillips and his group inserted themselves between the Black Israelites and the kids - there is no question about this. The video supports it. That does not translate to "Phillips initiated the confrontation." There is at least one person who notes (it is captured in the audio) that they seem to be inserting themselves between the two antagonists (kids, Black Isrealites) in an attempt to cool things or "make peace." That is also what Phillips claims. The video also does not show how the specific encounter between Sandmann and Phillips began - for that we only have the words of the two people involved, as far as I know.

I think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.

Let me try again - last word to ya'll...

[seer]

Yes - Phillips and his group inserted themselves between the Black Israelites and the kids - there is no question about this. The video supports it. That does not translate to "Phillips initiated the confrontation." There is at least one person who notes (it is captured in the audio) that they seem to be inserting themselves between the two antagonists (kids, Black Isrealites) in an attempt to cool things or "make peace." That is also what Phillips claims. The video also does not show how the specific encounter between Sandmann and Phillips began - for that we only have the words of the two people involved, as far as I know.

I think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.

Let me try again - last word to ya'll...

What are you talking about. So you get right up in the kids faces and bang a drum? Of course Phillips initiated the confrontation. I said the Indian approached the kids, you said: There are differing claims with respect to this. No, no there isn't - Phillips and his crew approached the kids. Be honest Carp, you pre-judged these kids as being disrespectful without the full story...

[Mountain Man]

I think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.

Let me try again - last word to ya'll...

I guess it was too much to expect you to admit you were wrong about this story.

[Cow Poke]

I knew that - and his role in the Dakota Sands protest. This is not new information for me. "Political activist" is not a dirty word for me. It simply means he is a person who takes a stand for what he believes.

As opposed to a bunch of High School kids...

I'm not going to assume "bad" on the basis of that.

Of course not, you'll give him the benefit of the doubt while casting aspersion on the "disrepecters".

MLK was a political activist. So was Ghandi. So was Rosa Parks.

You are so amusing.

[Cow Poke]

No Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.

Because he's a political activist - it's what he does. As opposed, of course, to quietly sitting on a bus.

[Mountain Man]

I think "media whore" is probably a better description than "political activist".

[seer]

Because he's a political activist - it's what he does. As opposed, of course, to quietly sitting on a bus.

But it was all the kid's fault - the hats, man, the hats. That is all we need to prove them guilty!

[Cow Poke]

I think "media whore" is probably a better description than "political activist".

Yeah, to put him in the same category with MLKjr, Ghandi and Rosa Parks is a real discredit to them.

[rogue06]

No Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.

Boy has his story changed. First he, relying on the very short clip for cover, claimed that the Covington students approached and confronted him. Then, when that was no longer feasible, he claimed he was trying to join a group of friends but was blocked. But as questions arose about the veracity of that claim he then said that the students should have moved out of his way but refused to because they didn't recognize his existence as a human being -- i.e., they're racists.

Apparently Phillips has a fairly long history of walking right up into the face of people while pounding his drum in all likelihood an attempt at provoking a negative reaction.

[Cow Poke]

Apparently Phillips has a fairly long history of walking right up into the face of people while pounding his drum in all likelihood an attempt at provoking a negative reaction.

EGGzackly like MLKjr, Ghandi and Rosa Parks.