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  • #31
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    At no point did I say that "Trump is to blame for this kid's actions." Trump IS to blame, however, for contributing to an atmosphere where bullying, ridicule, and harassment are considered "acceptable behavior." From the bully pulpit of the White House and the executive office he holds, he demonstrates this behavior on a daily basis.
    In other words, Trump is to blame for this kid's actions.

    And after years of watching the deplorable actions of groups like Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, and liberal protestors in general, you're going to have an uphill battle making the case that Trump is somehow uniquely responsible for the current level of political discourse. It started LONG before he even thought of running for president.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-20-2019, 12:43 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      In other words, Trump is to blame for this kid's actions.
      No. And putting words in my mouth is not much more than a strawman, MM.

      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      And after years of watching the deplorable actions of groups like Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, and liberal protestors in general, you're going to have an uphill battle making the case that Trump is somehow uniquely responsible for the current level of political discourse. It started LONG before he even thought of running for president.
      Since I did not say or imply this - I have no response.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #33
        As the late Paul Harvey used to say, "And now, the rest of the story..."

        ...a full examination of the video evidence shows a more complicated picture.

        Video posted by a group of left-wing activists present showed that the students had been taunted with racial slurs as the incident took place.

        Other video evidence showed the Native American drummer approaching the students, rather than the opposite.

        One student wrote to a local news outlet begging it to tell the full story about what happened at the march:

        "I am a student at Covington Catholic and was present at the occurrence. Here is what truly happened …

        "In the midst of our cheers, we were approached by a group of adults led by Nathan Phillips, with Phillips beating his drum. They forced their way into the center of our group. We initially thought this was a cultural display since he was beating along to our cheers and so we clapped to the beat. … However, after multiple minutes of Mr. Phililps beating his drum directly in the face of my friend (mere centimeters from his nose), we became confused and started wondering what was happening. It was not until later that we discovered they would incriminate us as a publicity stunt. … To reiterate, we did not partake in any physical or verbal abuse … After that initial occurrence, we were then verbally assaulted by four or five African-American men who called us '[Not sure if this word is acceptable at Tweb. -MM]' and berated one of our African-American students for being friends with us. The truth needs to come out. I pray that you read this …"

        Phillips told a Detroit newspaper that he had “tried to keep the peace between a group of mostly white students attending a March for Life event and a gathering of about four black members of a religious group known as the Black Hebrew Israelites.” He added: “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey.” He claimed that the students had chanted “build the wall” — a claim that the student above explicitly denied.

        Phillips also told the Washington Post “he felt threatened by the teens and that they swarmed around him.” But the full video makes it clear he had approached the students, who were already there, rather than the other way around.

        The Gateway Pundit also pointed out that Phillips had been involved in similar confrontations before.

        https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/...tive-american/


        But I'm sure this is still Trump's fault.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          As the late Paul Harvey used to say, "And now, the rest of the story..."

          ...a full examination of the video evidence shows a more complicated picture.

          Video posted by a group of left-wing activists present showed that the students had been taunted with racial slurs as the incident took place.

          Other video evidence showed the Native American drummer approaching the students, rather than the opposite.

          One student wrote to a local news outlet begging it to tell the full story about what happened at the march:

          "I am a student at Covington Catholic and was present at the occurrence. Here is what truly happened …

          "In the midst of our cheers, we were approached by a group of adults led by Nathan Phillips, with Phillips beating his drum. They forced their way into the center of our group. We initially thought this was a cultural display since he was beating along to our cheers and so we clapped to the beat. … However, after multiple minutes of Mr. Phililps beating his drum directly in the face of my friend (mere centimeters from his nose), we became confused and started wondering what was happening. It was not until later that we discovered they would incriminate us as a publicity stunt. … To reiterate, we did not partake in any physical or verbal abuse … After that initial occurrence, we were then verbally assaulted by four or five African-American men who called us '[Not sure if this word is acceptable at Tweb. -MM]' and berated one of our African-American students for being friends with us. The truth needs to come out. I pray that you read this …"

          Phillips told a Detroit newspaper that he had “tried to keep the peace between a group of mostly white students attending a March for Life event and a gathering of about four black members of a religious group known as the Black Hebrew Israelites.” He added: “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey.” He claimed that the students had chanted “build the wall” — a claim that the student above explicitly denied.

          Phillips also told the Washington Post “he felt threatened by the teens and that they swarmed around him.” But the full video makes it clear he had approached the students, who were already there, rather than the other way around.

          The Gateway Pundit also pointed out that Phillips had been involved in similar confrontations before.

          https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/...tive-american/


          But I'm sure this is still Trump's fault.
          OK - I've worked my way through this video, and I'm not finding what the article claims is there. Granted I don't have 90 minutes to spend watching this thing, so I jumped through it looking for what was described in the article - and I don't see it. I also jumped to the timestamp recommended in the article, and I'm not seeing it.

          So what am I missing...?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Since I did not say or imply this...
            The article you posted to kick off this thread did. The very first sentence speculates that "the close affiliation of many antiabortion leaders with President Trump since he took office has led to moral decay that harms the movement," and reader comments are full of references to "Hitler Youth" and "brown shirts", so it seems the author's intent was obvious to a lot of people.

            I guess my question is, did you post the article because you agree with such sentiments, or were you playing devil's advocate?
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              As the late Paul Harvey used to say, "And now, the rest of the story..."

              ...a full examination of the video evidence shows a more complicated picture.

              Video posted by a group of left-wing activists present showed that the students had been taunted with racial slurs as the incident took place.

              Other video evidence showed the Native American drummer approaching the students, rather than the opposite.

              One student wrote to a local news outlet begging it to tell the full story about what happened at the march:

              "I am a student at Covington Catholic and was present at the occurrence. Here is what truly happened …

              "In the midst of our cheers, we were approached by a group of adults led by Nathan Phillips, with Phillips beating his drum. They forced their way into the center of our group. We initially thought this was a cultural display since he was beating along to our cheers and so we clapped to the beat. … However, after multiple minutes of Mr. Phililps beating his drum directly in the face of my friend (mere centimeters from his nose), we became confused and started wondering what was happening. It was not until later that we discovered they would incriminate us as a publicity stunt. … To reiterate, we did not partake in any physical or verbal abuse … After that initial occurrence, we were then verbally assaulted by four or five African-American men who called us '[Not sure if this word is acceptable at Tweb. -MM]' and berated one of our African-American students for being friends with us. The truth needs to come out. I pray that you read this …"

              Phillips told a Detroit newspaper that he had “tried to keep the peace between a group of mostly white students attending a March for Life event and a gathering of about four black members of a religious group known as the Black Hebrew Israelites.” He added: “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey.” He claimed that the students had chanted “build the wall” — a claim that the student above explicitly denied.

              Phillips also told the Washington Post “he felt threatened by the teens and that they swarmed around him.” But the full video makes it clear he had approached the students, who were already there, rather than the other way around.

              The Gateway Pundit also pointed out that Phillips had been involved in similar confrontations before.

              https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/...tive-american/


              But I'm sure this is still Trump's fault.
              On ABC’s Good Morning America one of the network's correspondents Erielle Reshef appears to be corroborating this noting that

              "Overnight, new video calling into question just how this encounter began. Appearing to show Phillips approaching the crowd of boys as they chant their school letters. ABC news has tried to identify and contact the students in the video. The parent of a boy who says he was there and wants to remain anonymous sent us a statement saying in part, “an indigenous American man with a few other men approached the center of the boys and in particular one boy. The boy from my school didn't say anything or move. He just stood there. As time went on, the man with the drum got closer to his face. After a couple of minutes, the man standing there beating the drum in the boy's face, he walked away"


              She ended the report with

              One Native American man who was there tells the Associated Press that he initially thought this could spiral out of control, there would be a mob mentality, but some of those students actually joining the Native American men and women that were singing there, and it ended up defusing peacefully. That's what we don't see in some of the video.


              After she concluded her report, Dan Harris, an anchor for ABC's Nightline and co-anchor for the weekend edition of Good Morning America, remarked that this was "More complicated than it appears."

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                OK - I've worked my way through this video, and I'm not finding what the article claims is there. Granted I don't have 90 minutes to spend watching this thing, so I jumped through it looking for what was described in the article - and I don't see it. I also jumped to the timestamp recommended in the article, and I'm not seeing it.

                So what am I missing...?
                Did you really miss this?

                https://mobile.twitter.com/PolishPat...ve-american%2F

                You can see the Indian fellow walk boldly up to the group of students and get right in their faces. You can even see the momentary confusion of the students who thought he was there to support them.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Did you really miss this?
                  As far as I can tell - it was not in the longer video that I looked at - but it is possible that it is actually in it and I missed it.

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  https://mobile.twitter.com/PolishPat...ve-american%2F You can see the Indian fellow walk boldly up to the group of students
                  Absolutely...

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  and get right in their faces.
                  Ummm... no. I'm not seeing what you are apparently seeing. I do see the man walk up to the group, and the group dancing to his beat.

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  You can even see the momentary confusion of the students who thought he was there to support them.
                  I can see the dancing slowing down. What I cannot see is why - and I cannot see the point at which the young man in the "viral" video comes on the scene and what precipitates the "in-your-face" posture he took and his smirk.

                  His posture and smirk are indisputable in the other video. What precipitated it is not.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    As far as I can tell - it was not in the longer video that I looked at - but it is possible that it is actually in it and I missed it.



                    Absolutely...



                    Ummm... no. I'm not seeing what you are apparently seeing. I do see the man walk up to the group, and the group dancing to his beat.



                    I can see the dancing slowing down. What I cannot see is why - and I cannot see the point at which the young man in the "viral" video comes on the scene and what precipitates the "in-your-face" posture he took and his smirk.

                    His posture and smirk are indisputable in the other video. What precipitated it is not.
                    *sigh*
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I've seen several people refer to the boy's smirk, implying that this makes him the aggressor, but none of them seem to have a problem with the Indian fellow beating a drum just inches from his face.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        OK - I've worked my way through this video, and I'm not finding what the article claims is there. Granted I don't have 90 minutes to spend watching this thing, so I jumped through it looking for what was described in the article - and I don't see it. I also jumped to the timestamp recommended in the article, and I'm not seeing it.

                        So what am I missing...?
                        Go to the Breitbart link, click on the video that looks like this:

                        Students.JPG
                        Slide the slider forward to 1 hour 10 min and watch until they get on the bus.

                        Warning, there is profanity in this video so I'm not linking directly to it.
                        Last edited by Littlejoe; 01-20-2019, 02:52 PM.
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I've seen several people refer to the boy's smirk, implying that this makes him the aggressor, but none of them seem to have a problem with the Indian fellow beating a drum just inches from his face.
                          Considering the new evidence what was initially described as an insolent or arrogant smirk is more likely a look of bemused confusion.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I've seen several people refer to the boy's smirk, implying that this makes him the aggressor, but none of them seem to have a problem with the Indian fellow beating a drum just inches from his face.
                            If the man encroached on the boy's space - ti is a problem. If the boy encroached on the man's space, then it is the boy's problem.

                            From the video I've seen - I cannot tell which occurred. I CAN say that I've seen that look before - and it has never been on an innocent face. But that's as much as I can say.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                              Go to the Breitbart link, click on the video that looks like this:

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]34557[/ATTACH]
                              Slide the slider forward to 1 hour 10 min and watch until they get on the bus.

                              Warning, there is profanity in this video so I'm not linking directly to it.
                              That may be part of my problem. I thought the video was without audio. I'm not getting any on my machine. Not sure what is wrong. I'll try it on a different machine when I get back home.

                              Thanks for the assist.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Considering the new evidence what was initially described as an insolent or arrogant smirk is more likely a look of bemused confusion.
                                I see defiance more than bemusement. How I see it, the Indian fellow got in his face, and he wasn't going to back down. I don't think that was the appropriate response, but he clearly wasn't the instigator like liberals are claiming.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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