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You Trump Supporters!!!

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  • You Trump Supporters!!!

    To those rabid anti-Christian bigots who keep parroting the "you Trump supporters" jackassery, I think this article is a great one for you to ignore...

    Don't Believe the Doomsayers About Donald Trump

    Particularly the type of sentiment posed in this paragraph...

    Why would the Christians who vote for Republicans ever permit anti-Trump liberals to claim to speak for them? Not only is there not a moral consensus between liberals and Christian conservatives, but it should be obvious that believing and practicing Christians have much more to fear from liberal government and liberal social intolerance than they have to fear from lies about a real estate deal in Moscow that never came together.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    To those rabid anti-Christian bigots who keep parroting the "you Trump supporters" jackassery, I think this article is a great one for you to ignore...

    Don't Believe the Doomsayers About Donald Trump

    Particularly the type of sentiment posed in this paragraph...

    Why would the Christians who vote for Republicans ever permit anti-Trump liberals to claim to speak for them? Not only is there not a moral consensus between liberals and Christian conservatives, but it should be obvious that believing and practicing Christians have much more to fear from liberal government and liberal social intolerance than they have to fear from lies about a real estate deal in Moscow that never came together.
    So you fear homosexuals more than you fear a treasonous wannabe dictator in the White House. Gotcha!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      So you fear homosexuals more than you fear a treasonous wannabe dictator in the White House. Gotcha!
      I fully expected my favorite example of anti-Christian idiocy would show up and say something really jackassy.

      Congrats, Jim - you never disappoint.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        So you fear homosexuals more than you fear a treasonous wannabe dictator in the White House. Gotcha!
        Trump is a ‘wanna be dictator’, but ‘I have a pen and a phone’ Obama isn’t. Okay.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Trump is a ‘wanna be dictator’, but ‘I have a pen and a phone’ Obama isn’t. Okay.
          It's JimL.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think the part Cow Poke quoted misses the essential problem. The central question is not: “Why would the Christians who vote for Republicans ever permit anti-Trump liberals to claim to speak for them?” No one blames them for that. The central question is rather how “the Christians who vote for Republicans” manage to be both Christians and Trump supporters. And I am not only talking about voting for Trump as the least worse option. I am – of course – talking about continuing to cover up, hand wave, create alibis and support him instead of the weak people he attacks.

            What the OP completely misses is the point that “the Christians who vote for Republicans” should find criticism within their own convictions, within the values they claim to hold on to.

            In the interesting article Evangelicals have hired their own Goliath Michael Gerson who is a Christian writes:

            Headed into a possible impeachment battle, the most ethically challenged president of modern times — prone to cruelty, bigotry, vanity, adultery and serial deception — is depending on religiously conservative voters for his political survival. And, so far, it is not a bad bet.
            And he continues:

            In this struggle, many evangelicals believe they have found a champion in Trump. He is the enemy of their enemies. He is willing to use the hardball tactics of the secular world to defend their sacred interests. In their battle with the Philistines, evangelicals have essentially hired their own Goliath — brutal, pagan, but on their side.

            It doesn’t take much biblical research to discover that this isn’t quite how God accomplished things in the original story. He actually employed a scrawny Jewish boy, using unconventional tactics, to demonstrate that His favor mattered more than worldly measures of strength. From a purely political perspective, however, the hiring of a Goliath is what interest groups generally do.
            And here is where I think he puts it in very short terms but gets it completely right:

            Christianity inevitably raises the question: What if everyone we favor, and everyone we fear, and everyone we help, and everyone we exploit, and everyone we love, and everyone we hate, were the reflected image of God — unique, valuable and destined for eternity?
            Among the Catholics we also find some very strong criticism of Trump:

            Leading US Catholic bishops have escalated their criticism of the Trump administration's immigration policies, calling new asylum-limiting rules "immoral" and rhetorically comparing the crackdown to abortion by saying it is a "a right to life" issue. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8399016.html
            From the same article:

            As a Catholic bishop, I support political and legal authority. I have always taught respect for the civil law and will continue to do so. But, I cannot be silent when our country's immigration policy destroys families, traumatises parents, and terrorises children. The harmful and unjust policy of separating children from their parents must be ended.
            So, easy as it may be to hand wave criticism as being anti Christian and whatever, the important criticism is that Trump’s policies are at times inhuman, immoral and a contradiction of basic Christian ideas that you should do unto others, that you should see Jesus in the stranger and that you should regard everyone (everyone!) as being created in the image of God.

            Compromising on that, if you believe in those values, is the greatest risk.
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              I think the part Cow Poke quoted misses the essential problem. The central question is not: “Why would the Christians who vote for Republicans ever permit anti-Trump liberals to claim to speak for them?” No one blames them for that. The central question is rather how “the Christians who vote for Republicans” manage to be both Christians and Trump supporters. And I am not only talking about voting for Trump as the least worse option. I am – of course – talking about continuing to cover up, hand wave, create alibis and support him instead of the weak people he attacks.

              What the OP completely misses is the point that “the Christians who vote for Republicans” should find criticism within their own convictions, within the values they claim to hold on to.

              In the interesting article Evangelicals have hired their own Goliath Michael Gerson who is a Christian writes:



              And he continues:



              And here is where I think he puts it in very short terms but gets it completely right:



              Among the Catholics we also find some very strong criticism of Trump:



              From the same article:



              So, easy as it may be to hand wave criticism as being anti Christian and whatever, the important criticism is that Trump’s policies are at times inhuman, immoral and a contradiction of basic Christian ideas that you should do unto others, that you should see Jesus in the stranger and that you should regard everyone (everyone!) as being created in the image of God.

              Compromising on that, if you believe in those values, is the greatest risk.
              Do you feel better after all that ranting? The fact anti Christian bigots, like you, hate Trump is a bonus point.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                I fully expected my favorite example of anti-Christian idiocy would show up and say something really jackassy.
                This as opposed to Trump’s pro-Christian virtues you mean?
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  To those rabid anti-Christian bigots who keep parroting the "you Trump supporters" jackassery, I think this article is a great one for you to ignore...

                  Don't Believe the Doomsayers About Donald Trump

                  Particularly the type of sentiment posed in this paragraph...

                  Why would the Christians who vote for Republicans ever permit anti-Trump liberals to claim to speak for them? Not only is there not a moral consensus between liberals and Christian conservatives, but it should be obvious that believing and practicing Christians have much more to fear from liberal government and liberal social intolerance than they have to fear from lies about a real estate deal in Moscow that never came together.

                  Liberals are not anti-Christian.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    This as opposed to Trump’s pro-Christian virtues you mean?
                    You can be such a jackass, and with so little effort.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      Liberals are not anti-Christian.
                      Correction - not ALL liberals are anti-Christian.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Charles View Post
                        So, easy as it may be to hand wave criticism as being anti Christian and whatever, the important criticism is that Trump’s policies are at times inhuman, immoral and a contradiction of basic Christian ideas that you should do unto others, that you should see Jesus in the stranger and that you should regard everyone (everyone!) as being created in the image of God.
                        Perhaps you are unaware that the office of POTUS is not intended to be the National Pastor or Pope. Trump is an incredibly flawed man who ran against an incredibly flawed woman who is also a liar and despicable individual.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Perhaps you are unaware that the office of POTUS is not intended to be the National Pastor or Pope.
                          Nope. But I see no reason why we should ignore the fact that he does many wrong things and goes in a direction that is contradictory to what is morally responsible just because he is not a pope. If your best argument is that he is not a pope, your case is very, very weak.

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Trump is an incredibly flawed man who ran against an incredibly flawed woman who is also a liar and despicable individual.
                          Which is why I wonder why some people are busy trying to justify their every action. And which is why I wonder why you have a problem when I point to the wrong things Trump do. If he is “an incredibly flawed man” why do you have such a hard time holding him accountable for his actions?
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            Nope. But I see no reason why we should ignore the fact that he does many wrong things and goes in a direction that is contradictory to what is morally responsible just because he is not a pope.
                            And I get really tired of you making these idiot assumptions that I "ignored" anything.

                            If your best argument is that he is not a pope, your case is very, very weak.
                            And, again, a jackass assumption that that's my "best argument".

                            Which is why I wonder why some people are busy trying to justify their every action.
                            I have an idea! Why don't you ask THEM, whoever they are?

                            And which is why I wonder why you have a problem when I point to the wrong things Trump do.
                            Yet another idiot assumption --- I am very much bothered by a lot of the things "Trump do".

                            If he is “an incredibly flawed man”
                            He is.

                            why do you have such a hard time holding him accountable for his actions?
                            Why do you keep jumping to jackass conclusions devoid of fact? Are you just that stupid, or are you a pathological liar like you claim Trump is?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you could address at least an entire sentence at a time we could have a real discussion. Destroying context in order to call me jackass, idiot or whatever is a little below decent standard.

                              Anyway I have shown my main point which is that criticism of Trump is – not surprisingly – seen among many Christians who remain true to basic Christian values, some of which are also basic human and moral values. I will repeat Michael Gerson’s point:

                              Christianity inevitably raises the question: What if everyone we favor, and everyone we fear, and everyone we help, and everyone we exploit, and everyone we love, and everyone we hate, were the reflected image of God — unique, valuable and destined for eternity? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...cbd_story.html
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment

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