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Thread: New York celebrates legalizing abortion until birth

  1. #21
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    I'm not normally a fan of bishops taking action against a Catholic politician due to their positions being contrary to that of the church, even when it comes to abortion, but when it's something as extreme as this I don't think doing that to Cuomo would be unwarranted.

    I know Dolan (bishop of New York) has said he has no plans to excommunicate Cuomo, but he could at least take the step of banning him from communion like was done to Dick Durbin (albeit by another bishop).
    I'd think that openly espousing a mortal sin would be automatic grounds for excommunication. The RCC has a discipline problem, however, as evidenced by its abuse scandals.
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  2. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I'd think that openly espousing a mortal sin would be automatic grounds for excommunication. The RCC has a discipline problem, however, as evidenced by its abuse scandals.
    JP II and especially Francis have been big advocates for forgiveness and absolution but here there is no remorse, no repentance. In fact it is the exact opposite. Cuomo and his ilk are adamantly complacent in their celebration of this atrocity.

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  4. #23
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    JP II and especially Francis have been big advocates for forgiveness and absolution but here there is no remorse, no repentance. In fact it is the exact opposite. Cuomo and his ilk are adamantly complacent in their celebration of this atrocity.
    That's what I mean by "openly espousing". There can be no remorse or repentance when that's going on. In the end, though, they'll end up before the Judgment Seat just like the rest of us.
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  5. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I'd think that openly espousing a mortal sin would be automatic grounds for excommunication.
    I don't think it is, if this article is accurate:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/relig...ortion-policy/

    But, as noted, the path to simply denying someone communion is much simpler, and can be done simply for "obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin."

    It is not clear that Cuomo’s action, offensive as it is to Catholic teaching and sensibilities, fits the bill for excommunication. One excommunicable offense does deal with abortion, but it applies only if a Catholic is directly involved in an abortion. Some experts have argued that a long history of advocacy for abortion rights demonstrates Cuomo’s implicit heresy, another canonical crime for which he might be excommunicated. But the path to formally declaring Cuomo a heretic is complicated, and Dolan probably would not pursue it.

    ...

    To respond to all those concerns, Dolan doesn’t need to use excommunication.

    Instead, he can declare that Cuomo’s ongoing and open support for legalized abortion constitutes “obstinate perseverance” in grave sin and that, as a consequence, Cuomo cannot receive Communion in the Archdiocese of New York, where he lives. Bishops have made similar moves before, albeit rarely, and the Vatican has encouraged bishops to make such declarations.

  7. #25
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    ...for "obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin."
    [Col Jessup] is there any other kind? [/Col Jessup]
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  8. #26
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The bit above about "the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable." is a joke.

    If the woman's life is at risk and the baby is more than 24 weeks old, they could just deliver the baby and it would survive instead of aborting it. They would have to deliver it after aborting it anyway, so to claim that they had to abort it to save the woman's life at that point would be a lie.

    This law is pure evil and legalized murder.
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    Last edited by DesertBerean; 01-30-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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  9. #27
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    It looks like Virginia is making a bid to join New York in sliding into the pits of hell by allowing a baby to be aborted right up to the moment it is being born. Governor Ralph Northam (D - Va.), during an interview on WTOP-FM concerning a bill allowing abortions through the third trimester was asked about his take on it.

    Source: Northam on Abortion Bill: Infant Could Be Delivered and Then ‘Physicians and the Mother’ Could Decide If It Lives


    Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D.) commented Wednesday about a controversial 40-week abortion bill and in so doing said the law allows an abortion to take place after the infant's birth.

    "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother," Northam said, alluding to the physician and mother discussing whether the born infant should live or die.

    A Democratic lawmaker in the Virginia House of Delegates proposed a bill Tuesday that would allow abortions through the end of the third trimester of pregnancy. The video of Delegate Kathy Tran presenting her bill led to an exchange where she admitted that her bill would allow for a mother to abort her child minutes before giving birth.

    "How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated that it would impair the mental health of the woman?" Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R.) asked.

    "Or physical health," Tran said.

    "Okay," Gilbert replied. "I'm talking about the mental health."

    "I mean, through the third trimester," Tran said. "The third trimester goes up to 40 weeks."

    "Okay, but to the end of the third trimester?" Gilbert asked.

    "Yup, I don't think we have a limit in the bill," Tran said.

    "Where it's obvious that a woman is about to give birth, she has physical signs that she's about to give birth, would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified?" Gilbert asked. "She's dilating."

    Tran responded that is a decision between the woman and her doctor would have to make. Gilbert asked if her bill would allow an abortion right before the infant was born.

    "My bill would allow that, yes," Tran said.

    NBC4 reporter Julie Carey asked Northam about the measure.

    "Do you support her measure and explain her answer?" Carey asked.

    "I wasn't there, Julie. And I certainly can't speak for delegate Tran. But I would tell you one, the first think I would say, this is why decisions such as this should be made by providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved," Northam said. "When we talk about third trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician by the way. And it is done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable."

    Northam continued by saying government shouldn't be involved in these types of decisions and that legislators, especially male legislators, shouldn't be telling women what to do.

    "I think this was really blown out of proportion. But again we want the government not to be involved in these types of decisions. We want the decision to be made by the mothers and their providers. And this is why Julie, that legislators, most of whom are men by the way, shouldn't be telling a woman what she should or shouldn't be doing with her body," Northam said.

    Carey asked if the law should still require women to have multiple physicians approve an abortion.

    "Well, I think it is always good to get a second opinion and for at least two providers to be involved in that decision," Northam said. "These decisions shouldn't be taken lightly.


    Source

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    I don't see where Northman is explicitly advocating for post birth abortion so the headline may be misleading but he certainly wants to join in on the celebrating in New York

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  10. #28
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    and how do they define "viable?"

  11. #29
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    So they want to allow a woman who may have mental health issues affected by giving birth to a baby make a decision about murdering said baby after it's born.



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  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    It looks like Virginia is making a bid to join New York in sliding into the pits of hell by allowing a baby to be aborted right up to the moment it is being born. Governor Ralph Northam (D - Va.), during an interview on WTOP-FM concerning a bill allowing abortions through the third trimester was asked about his take on it.

    Source: Northam on Abortion Bill: Infant Could Be Delivered and Then ‘Physicians and the Mother’ Could Decide If It Lives


    Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D.) commented Wednesday about a controversial 40-week abortion bill and in so doing said the law allows an abortion to take place after the infant's birth.

    "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother," Northam said, alluding to the physician and mother discussing whether the born infant should live or die.

    A Democratic lawmaker in the Virginia House of Delegates proposed a bill Tuesday that would allow abortions through the end of the third trimester of pregnancy. The video of Delegate Kathy Tran presenting her bill led to an exchange where she admitted that her bill would allow for a mother to abort her child minutes before giving birth.

    "How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated that it would impair the mental health of the woman?" Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R.) asked.

    "Or physical health," Tran said.

    "Okay," Gilbert replied. "I'm talking about the mental health."

    "I mean, through the third trimester," Tran said. "The third trimester goes up to 40 weeks."

    "Okay, but to the end of the third trimester?" Gilbert asked.

    "Yup, I don't think we have a limit in the bill," Tran said.

    "Where it's obvious that a woman is about to give birth, she has physical signs that she's about to give birth, would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified?" Gilbert asked. "She's dilating."

    Tran responded that is a decision between the woman and her doctor would have to make. Gilbert asked if her bill would allow an abortion right before the infant was born.

    "My bill would allow that, yes," Tran said.

    NBC4 reporter Julie Carey asked Northam about the measure.

    "Do you support her measure and explain her answer?" Carey asked.

    "I wasn't there, Julie. And I certainly can't speak for delegate Tran. But I would tell you one, the first think I would say, this is why decisions such as this should be made by providers, physicians, and the mothers and fathers that are involved," Northam said. "When we talk about third trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician by the way. And it is done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable."

    Northam continued by saying government shouldn't be involved in these types of decisions and that legislators, especially male legislators, shouldn't be telling women what to do.

    "I think this was really blown out of proportion. But again we want the government not to be involved in these types of decisions. We want the decision to be made by the mothers and their providers. And this is why Julie, that legislators, most of whom are men by the way, shouldn't be telling a woman what she should or shouldn't be doing with her body," Northam said.

    Carey asked if the law should still require women to have multiple physicians approve an abortion.

    "Well, I think it is always good to get a second opinion and for at least two providers to be involved in that decision," Northam said. "These decisions shouldn't be taken lightly.


    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    I don't see where Northman is explicitly advocating for post birth abortion so the headline may be misleading but he certainly wants to join in on the celebrating in New York
    Ralph's a joke and a moron.

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